Trump administration to reform work visa programs used by many tech companies to bring...

Jos

Posts: 3,073   +97

The disconnect between Donald Trump and Silicon Valley is likely to widen as his administration has drafted an executive order that intends to overhaul the work-visa programs that various technology companies rely on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.

According to a draft of the order obtained by Bloomberg, the proposed changes affect a number of visa programs including H-1B, L-1, E-2 and B1. Full details are unknown at this point but the intention is to tighten requirements so that businesses are compelled to hire American first, and if they recruit foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly paid.

Foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. The program indeed serves its intended purpose when companies hire for highly technical positions in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) fields. However, Bloomberg references allegations that the programs are also frequently abused to bring cheaper workers from overseas.

The top recipients of the H-1B visas doing this are reportedly outsourcers from India like Infosys and Wipro, who run the technology departments of large corporations with largely imported staff.

“Our country’s immigration policies should be designed and implemented to serve, first and foremost, the U.S. national interest,” the draft proposal reads. “Visa programs for foreign workers … should be administered in a manner that protects the civil rights of American workers and current lawful residents, and that prioritizes the protection of American workers.”

It’s not clear if the draft seeks to reduce the number of workers allowed to enter under such programs (currently 85,000 per year) of if will make it harder to get applications approved. However the concern is that it could also stifle innovation by limiting talent coming from abroad.

The Trump administration is already under heavy criticism over its recent move to ban refugees from seven predominantly Muslim nations. Companies including Google, Facebook, Microsoft and others have rejected the ban claiming it violates the country’s principles. Some of them also helped the American Civil Liberties Union raise over $24 million in online donations this weekend alone to fight the ban.

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Skidmarksdeluxe

Posts: 8,645   +3,288
It's a double edged sword. While you would want to give your own citizens first crack at the market, you'd also want the best person for that job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 

GeforcerFX

Posts: 1,005   +473
It's a double edged sword. While you would want to give your own citizens first crack at the market, you'd also want the best person for that job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Very true, the issue I think people have with it is when a American worker who was educated in the US wants $80,000 a year the company can grab a employee from India that is at the same level of education and pay them $50-60,000 a year. I don't know how big of a problem it is, but I know from friends in the industry it happens.
 
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Kenrick

Posts: 631   +401
If I may add, they should add a clear large print stating in their contracts and visas "THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CITIZEN OF USA" and is employee to employee relationship only just to be clear. Also these companies who hire foreign workers should be held liable and accountable whatever their worker do outside of work.

Executives of silicon valleys dont have any clue what the real problems ordinary people have to endure daily because of their number games.
 

MilwaukeeMike

Posts: 3,214   +1,467
It's a double edged sword. While you would want to give your own citizens first crack at the market, you'd also want the best person for that job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Very true, the issue I think people have with it is when I a American worker who was educated in the US wants $80,000 a year the company can grab a employee from India that is at the same level of education and pay them $50-60,000 a year. I don't know how big of a problem it is, but I know from friends in the industry it happens.

There's another very big reason companies here hire foreigners. It's to actually protect American jobs. (Wait.. what?)

My company has a number of programmers from India - many on H1-B Visas. They come here for around 18 months and rotate home or somewhere else in the company. It's called a flexible staffing model. The reason for this is because when something like a 2008 financial crisis comes around a grand total of ZERO Americans get laid off, because you're able to just drop contractors. The Americans get stable jobs and job security, the Indians get to make great money as well and both pay tax to the USA.

There's also the issue of talent. We can't find enough Americans to do all the work we need. We NEED help from foreigners.

Not to mention - many of the H1-B Visa holders turn into green card holders and live here permanently. We also need this. America has way too many older people drawing from social security and way to few young people working. We need to increase the tax paying population in this country - especially after 8 years of hopeless economy left people sitting on the couch collecting benefits.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
It's safe to say that most foreign start-ups will now avoid the US unless they absolutely need to open shop there.

Good. More opportunities for home-grown businesses is a great thing. All Trump is doing is leveling the playing field: every Asian country is incredibly protectionist.
Personally, I do not think it will make one bit of difference in how many opportunities there are for home-grown businesses. Home-grown businesses imply that US citizens are starting them in the first place, and not a foreign entity.

It's a double edged sword. While you would want to give your own citizens first crack at the market, you'd also want the best person for that job. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Very true, the issue I think people have with it is when I a American worker who was educated in the US wants $80,000 a year the company can grab a employee from India that is at the same level of education and pay them $50-60,000 a year. I don't know how big of a problem it is, but I know from friends in the industry it happens.

There's another very big reason companies here hire foreigners. It's to actually protect American jobs. (Wait.. what?)

My company has a number of programmers from India - many on H1-B Visas. They come here for around 18 months and rotate home or somewhere else in the company. It's called a flexible staffing model. The reason for this is because when something like a 2008 financial crisis comes around a grand total of ZERO Americans get laid off, because you're able to just drop contractors. The Americans get stable jobs and job security, the Indians get to make great money as well and both pay tax to the USA.

There's also the issue of talent. We can't find enough Americans to do all the work we need. We NEED help from foreigners.

Not to mention - many of the H1-B Visa holders turn into green card holders and live here permanently. We also need this. America has way too many older people drawing from social security and way to few young people working. We need to increase the tax paying population in this country - especially after 8 years of hopeless economy left people sitting on the couch collecting benefits.
+1 for you. It is easy for those not in the tech industry to assume that we are losing jobs to foreigners. However, as your company has found, the company that I work for also has difficulty in finding good employees. My area used to be a hotbed of tech jobs, but one company that used to employ 70,000+ in our area evaporated - seems hard to believe but it did happen - and much of the talent that was in that company had to relocate elsewhere in the country.

For those who want to know, the company evaporated because it made some very bad decisions and failed to keep up with the market that it served. As it happened, the company essentially obsoleted itself.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
If I may add, they should add a clear large print stating in their contracts and visas "THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CITIZEN OF USA" and is employee to employee relationship only just to be clear. Also these companies who hire foreign workers should be held liable and accountable whatever their worker do outside of work.

Executives of silicon valleys dont have any clue what the real problems ordinary people have to endure daily because of their number games.
Wow! What a bunch of crap! Talk about a nanny state. In case you are not aware, the people who work at companies who hire them are more scrutinized than those who attempt to get into the country willy-nilly.

By your reasoning, we should hold gun companies responsible because wackos continually find ways to kill people using guns.
 

MonsterZero

Posts: 585   +336
It's safe to say that most foreign start-ups will now avoid the US unless they absolutely need to open shop there.

Good. More opportunities for home-grown businesses is a great thing. All Trump is doing is leveling the playing field: every Asian country is incredibly protectionist.
I guess, Billy-Joe from Redneck County is just hoping he can finally get that programming job he'd always dreamed of.
Are you kidding? Leveling the playing field would be dumping money into education and the tech sector to ensure that we have an educated workforce capable of taking over these jobs, which by the way we don't.

The lack of education and deductive reasoning is appalling, this is the whole reason we have half a country of uneducated people who voted Trump in the first place.
 

GeforcerFX

Posts: 1,005   +473
There's another very big reason companies here hire foreigners. It's to actually protect American jobs. (Wait.. what?)

My company has a number of programmers from India - many on H1-B Visas. They come here for around 18 months and rotate home or somewhere else in the company. It's called a flexible staffing model. The reason for this is because when something like a 2008 financial crisis comes around a grand total of ZERO Americans get laid off, because you're able to just drop contractors. The Americans get stable jobs and job security, the Indians get to make great money as well and both pay tax to the USA.

There's also the issue of talent. We can't find enough Americans to do all the work we need. We NEED help from foreigners.

Not to mention - many of the H1-B Visa holders turn into green card holders and live here permanently. We also need this. America has way too many older people drawing from social security and way to few young people working. We need to increase the tax paying population in this country - especially after 8 years of hopeless economy left people sitting on the couch collecting benefits.

I see lot's of American Talent, just looking at my group of techy/gamer people I hang with is mainly 22-27 year old college graduates that have a hard time finding reliable tech work. Part of it is there fault, they would rather sit drowning in student loan debt then take a job making $40-50,000 when they were told by there college they would make them $90,000-100,000 a year in that career field. I see a lot of people my age with this issue, overworth, they think there skills are more valuable then they are. So they sit on there high horses grabbing work here and there going on contract with companies for 4-6 months, the other companies grab anyone with the same skills at the best price they can, some of them wised up and took the jobs to have some stability, and they get to work with plenty of people from India, Japan, and China since those guys can't believe someone is offering them a job for $40,000 a year.
 

Kenrick

Posts: 631   +401
If I may add, they should add a clear large print stating in their contracts and visas "THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CITIZEN OF USA" and is employee to employee relationship only just to be clear. Also these companies who hire foreign workers should be held liable and accountable whatever their worker do outside of work.

Executives of silicon valleys dont have any clue what the real problems ordinary people have to endure daily because of their number games.
Wow! What a bunch of crap! Talk about a nanny state. In case you are not aware, the people who work at companies who hire them are more scrutinized than those who attempt to get into the country willy-nilly.

By your reasoning, we should hold gun companies responsible because wackos continually find ways to kill people using guns.

Dont take it literally. Add more sense to it. Why would you nanny a worker? Only close minded persons think like that. What I am saying is they do the hiring so they should also teach them even outside on how to behave outside of work.
 

p51d007

Posts: 2,668   +2,008
GOOD!
A lot of these tech companies have been using the H1B, to keep wages low, by hiring overseas.
How many stories have we seen recently, where they outsource, or replace workers with H1B types
and force the soon to be fired workers to train their cheaper replacements? All the while, keeping
their stock price high, and or board members rich. THAT needs to stop, and stop NOW.
Yes, if there are not QUALIFIED candidates, that's one thing, but if there is a qualified person here in the
states to do the job, but you can outsource it for 1/4 of the price, that should NOT be allowed!
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
If I may add, they should add a clear large print stating in their contracts and visas "THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CITIZEN OF USA" and is employee to employee relationship only just to be clear. Also these companies who hire foreign workers should be held liable and accountable whatever their worker do outside of work.

Executives of silicon valleys dont have any clue what the real problems ordinary people have to endure daily because of their number games.
Wow! What a bunch of crap! Talk about a nanny state. In case you are not aware, the people who work at companies who hire them are more scrutinized than those who attempt to get into the country willy-nilly.

By your reasoning, we should hold gun companies responsible because wackos continually find ways to kill people using guns.

Dont take it literally. Add more sense to it. Why would you nanny a worker? Only close minded persons think like that. What I am saying is they do the hiring so they should also teach them even outside on how to behave outside of work.
Point taken, but no company could possibly take responsibility for the actions of their employees outside of the place of employment. All companies expect and demand that their employees behave properly while they are on the job, however, that does not extend to when the employee is not on the job because when the employee is not on the job it does not reflect on the company.

Besides, as any good counselor will state, no one can change anyone else. Those people who are going to act badly will regardless of what anyone tells them.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
GOOD!
A lot of these tech companies have been using the H1B, to keep wages low, by hiring overseas.
How many stories have we seen recently, where they outsource, or replace workers with H1B types
and force the soon to be fired workers to train their cheaper replacements? All the while, keeping
their stock price high, and or board members rich. THAT needs to stop, and stop NOW.
Yes, if there are not QUALIFIED candidates, that's one thing, but if there is a qualified person here in the
states to do the job, but you can outsource it for 1/4 of the price, that should NOT be allowed!
The trend has been away from outsourcing for years. Those who still do it have recently joined the outsourcing game. They have yet to realize that distance and communication are very difficult and that often, you do not get what you want. This order is actually late to the game.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
There's another very big reason companies here hire foreigners. It's to actually protect American jobs. (Wait.. what?)

My company has a number of programmers from India - many on H1-B Visas. They come here for around 18 months and rotate home or somewhere else in the company. It's called a flexible staffing model. The reason for this is because when something like a 2008 financial crisis comes around a grand total of ZERO Americans get laid off, because you're able to just drop contractors. The Americans get stable jobs and job security, the Indians get to make great money as well and both pay tax to the USA.

There's also the issue of talent. We can't find enough Americans to do all the work we need. We NEED help from foreigners.

Not to mention - many of the H1-B Visa holders turn into green card holders and live here permanently. We also need this. America has way too many older people drawing from social security and way to few young people working. We need to increase the tax paying population in this country - especially after 8 years of hopeless economy left people sitting on the couch collecting benefits.

I see lot's of American Talent, just looking at my group of techy/gamer people I hang with is mainly 22-27 year old college graduates that have a hard time finding reliable tech work. Part of it is there fault, they would rather sit drowning in student loan debt then take a job making $40-50,000 when they were told by there college they would make them $90,000-100,000 a year in that career field. I see a lot of people my age with this issue, overworth, they think there skills are more valuable then they are. So they sit on there high horses grabbing work here and there going on contract with companies for 4-6 months, the other companies grab anyone with the same skills at the best price they can, some of them wised up and took the jobs to have some stability, and they get to work with plenty of people from India, Japan, and China since those guys can't believe someone is offering them a job for $40,000 a year.
They could end up making that much, but not fresh out of college. I've seen some code from some that were fresh out of college, and I could only think that they perhaps should find a different career.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,718   +3,927
It's safe to say that most foreign start-ups will now avoid the US unless they absolutely need to open shop there.

Good. More opportunities for home-grown businesses is a great thing. All Trump is doing is leveling the playing field: every Asian country is incredibly protectionist.
I guess, Billy-Joe from Redneck County is just hoping he can finally get that programming job he'd always dreamed of.
Are you kidding? Leveling the playing field would be dumping money into education and the tech sector to ensure that we have an educated workforce capable of taking over these jobs, which by the way we don't.

The lack of education and deductive reasoning is appalling, this is the whole reason we have half a country of uneducated people who voted Trump in the first place.
Are you kidding? Trump is the magic man. He even has fairy godmother Bannon waving his magic wand to transform the nation into the promised land. WTF? You want them to educate people? Who needs education? It costs too much. /sarcasm
 

fimbles

Posts: 1,194   +208
Is there some sort of visa reform to stop uneducated eastern european ex cons from coming to the UK? :p