US-China tensions escalate as top US tech companies reportedly cut off business with Huawei

[Danny101]

China is a bad actor. Something has to be done.

 

[EClyde]

Gotta Love Trump! I do

 

[EClyde]

Be it China or some other country, USA will not match .31 cents an hour, 35 hour shifts, no over time. Suicide nets.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/24ekd8/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-fear-factory

Well that's a good thing to see end. Paying slave masters to drive slaves is the same as being slave owners in effect. Slavery was abolished a long time ago in civilized society for good reason.
China has been breaking all the rules and getting away with it for a long time. Now has begun their reward for their morally defunct and unethical practices. The only thing they have is they are cheaper, nothing about them is better.

What would you have the Chinese do?

 

[Evernessince]

OK, you must either be Chinese or not an American...Let's see those agreements you say are so fair. Link please? And who are you to say agreements can't be changed or negotiated? That's life deals get changed and updated all the time. Who says they don't need or require goods the US has, You? Limited pool, of what? All you do is list vague references and inuendo's.

I think I'm wasting my time here unless you care to back anything up...

You were the one saying it wasn't fair and have yet to provide a single example of it being so. You want proof that the agreement is fair? The fact that you can't provide a single shred of evidence proving it is unfair says enough. It's called evidence of absence, look it up.

Agreements can be negotiated but if the Chinese don't need to buy American goods, there is only so much you can strong-arm them to buy things they don't need.

Who says they don't need or require goods the US has, You? Limited pool, of what? All you do is list vague references and inuendo's.

How about the fact that they aren't buying them?

If you raise the price on imported goods people will choose local goods in preference. Once one takes away the Chinese manipulated trade strategy (can do it cheaper than anyone) they have nothing left.
Better quality products that 100% support local economies are better. Paying slightly more isn't always an issue, except for the short sighted who have no care for the future.

This is not true. The average US consumer is heavily price sensitive. Even with a 25% tariff many Chinese goods are still cheaper then an American counterpart. This aside from the fact that many American households simply don't have the discretionary income to afford doubling the price of commodities.

Mind you this all assumes there is even an American alternative. Factories don't sprout up overnight and many types of goods are simply not made in America anymore.

I personally have the extra money to buy American but for many products I purchase there simply isn't even an American choice.

 

[fps4ever]

You were the one saying it wasn't fair and have yet to provide a single example of it being so. You want proof that the agreement is fair? The fact that you can't provide a single shred of evidence proving it is unfair says enough. It's called evidence of absence, look it up.

Agreements can be negotiated but if the Chinese don't need to buy American goods, there is only so much you can strong-arm them to buy things they don't need.





How about the fact that they aren't buying them?



This is not true. The average US consumer is heavily price sensitive. Even with a 25% tariff many Chinese goods are still cheaper then an American counterpart. This aside from the fact that many American households simply don't have the discretionary income to afford doubling the price of commodities.

Mind you this all assumes there is even an American alternative. Factories don't sprout up overnight and many types of goods are simply not made in America anymore.

I personally have the extra money to buy American but for many products I purchase there simply isn't even an American choice.

They are not buying them for the fact that China does NOT allow a lot of imports period. The Chinese government controls everything and are very strict on imports. Ask me how I know since I have a brother that worked there for several years. Companies took deals to get a foot in the door where China promised or hinted at future deals. Countries bit on that deception for decades. It's finally coming back to bite them now that someone is big enough to push back. The US economy is a lot stronger than the fragile China economy so good luck with that. Again you are offering nothing but lip service. Many Americans are perfectly fine paying a little more. I'd sure like to know what your allegiance is to communist China vs. the US? Your anti US agenda is showing....hmmmmm

China backtracked on nearly all aspects of US trade deal:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/08/chi...rly-all-aspects-of-us-trade-deal-sources.html

I'm sure China doesn't need anything we manufacture or produce for their 1.36 billion population.

 

[Sir Sparkles]

What would you have the Chinese do?

That's not our problem. They need to sort out their own screwed up system. As they are a totalitarian communist state it's irrelevant what anyone thinks anyway, even the Chinese people.
It's up to us to do the right thing by us. At the moment we are not.

This is not true. The average US consumer is heavily price sensitive. Even with a 25% tariff many Chinese goods are still cheaper then an American counterpart. This aside from the fact that many American households simply don't have the discretionary income to afford doubling the price of commodities.

Mind you this all assumes there is even an American alternative. Factories don't sprout up overnight and many types of goods are simply not made in America anymore.

I personally have the extra money to buy American but for many products I purchase there simply isn't even an American choice.

Sure there are no domestic alternatives at the moment, that is because we have shut them down and handed our money to the Chinese to fulfill the requirements. There used to be domestic alternatives for everything. But if that gap became financially viable again local industry would step up to fill it. Yes there would be a gap though. Capitalism in action.

What many people consider a commodity are in fact a luxury and discretionary spending. A little humility would go a long way in stabilizing our society too. Very few actual commodities come from China.

 

[misor]

Trump is killing US: more expensive, more companies going to close.
US cannot compete with China and Trump rudely stops using this dirty way.
Trump will be the worst president in US history.
Shame on Trump. Never vote for him!

Maybe China should stop US from using gunpowder and paper since they were invented by China!

I thought paper (papyrus) was invented by them alien pyramid builders (Egyptians)

 

[Evernessince]

They are not buying them for the fact that China does NOT allow a lot of imports period. The Chinese government controls everything and are very strict on imports. Ask me how I know since I have a brother that worked there for several years. Companies took deals to get a foot in the door where China promised or hinted at future deals. Countries bit on that deception for decades. It's finally coming back to bite them now that someone is big enough to push back. The US economy is a lot stronger than the fragile China economy so good luck with that. Again you are offering nothing but lip service. Many Americans are perfectly fine paying a little more. I'd sure like to know what your allegiance is to communist China vs. the US? Your anti US agenda is showing....hmmmmm

I don't agree with you so now I'm "anti-US" and my "anti-US agenda is showing"



https://www.export.gov/article?id=China-Prohibited-and-Restricted-Imports

From what I'm seeing, their import and export restrictions are far from ridiculous. And no, your personal conjecture does not count as a source. Perhaps you should spend more time finding sources to prove your conjecture instead of making assumptions.

China backtracked on nearly all aspects of US trade deal:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/08/chi...rly-all-aspects-of-us-trade-deal-sources.html

I'm sure China doesn't need anything we manufacture or produce for their 1.36 billion population.

Did you actually read that article? It's about China refusing to accept terms given to it by the Trump administration in regards to a new trade deal. It has nothing to do with the point you were trying to prove. That should be obvious, the deal mentioned in the article hasn't even been agreed upon yet and was not the basis by which past transactions took place under. The only thing you making those words in bold proves is that you fell for the clickbait headline and forget to read the actual content of the article.

That's not our problem. They need to sort out their own screwed up system. As they are a totalitarian communist state it's irrelevant what anyone thinks anyway, even the Chinese people.
It's up to us to do the right thing by us. At the moment we are not.


Sure there are no domestic alternatives at the moment, that is because we have shut them down and handed our money to the Chinese to fulfill the requirements. There used to be domestic alternatives for everything. But if that gap became financially viable again local industry would step up to fill it. Yes there would be a gap though. Capitalism in action.

What many people consider a commodity are in fact a luxury and discretionary spending. A little humility would go a long way in stabilizing our society too. Very few actual commodities come from China.

Not only are there no alternative products but the skilled labor, expertise, and supply chains are also all gone. TechSpot had an article not but a few months back that explained the difficulty Apple had making a single product in the united states. The product ended up being delayed because there was a utter lack of a kind of screw they needed and no one local could produce them in enough volume. They ended up ordering them from China.

Turing commodities into luxuries is humility and it's also the transformation from a global power to a 3rd world country. I do not believe the solution here is to turn the US into a 3rd world country to then maybe get back to being a world power.

 

[Sir Sparkles]

There's no shortage of expertise and science in the west, just the workers who have worked in those industries as they have all been outsourced to China for slave labor. This is the reason that China spends so much time and effort stealing our intellectual property and not developing it for themselves. Much easier and cheaper to steal it, no slaves to do it. When the financial incentive is presented workers will be trained. But yes, that does not exist right now because that is how the market is.

Like I said, China does not supply many commodities (apart from cotton). They purchase those from other countries. There is nothing they provide us that we cannot provide for ourselves. There is no detriment that would plummet any society from not trading with them. let alone plunge into poverty. That's laughable.

 

[Evernessince]

There's no shortage of expertise and science in the west, just the workers who have worked in those industries as they have all been outsourced to China for slave labor. This is the reason that China spends so much time and effort stealing our intellectual property and not developing it for themselves. Much easier and cheaper to steal it, no slaves to do it. When the financial incentive is presented workers will be trained. But yes, that does not exist right now because that is how the market is.

Like I said, China does not supply many commodities (apart from cotton). They purchase those from other countries. There is nothing they provide us that we cannot provide for ourselves. There is no detriment that would plummet any society from not trading with them. let alone plunge into poverty. That's laughable.

Actually there is a shortage of STEM in the US. https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurherman/2018/09/10/americas-high-tech-stem-crisis/#1d7a5bd5f0a2

That same article also debunks your idea that the Chinese are simply stealing our tech. They may be stealing tech (which is a legitimate concern) but they are also raising far more future engineers and scientists then America.

"There is nothing they provide us that we cannot provide for ourselves."

Aside from a supply chain that's worth trillions of dollars, the facilities and infrastructure, hundreds of thousands of machinists, and production experts with decades of experience? You'd better start now, it will be a decade before you get a supply chain that's 1/2 of what China has now, let alone sending all those people to school / training, and eventually having actual on the job experience.

That's not even considering that the Chinese government actually provides assistance to it's small business. Want to ship internationally from china? The government heavily subsidizes the cost of shipping. In America? Nope. In fact thanks to corporate lobbying, small businesses in America are a rare breed.

 

[hqxt1964]

Trump is just arrogant so crazy, I don't know if this is a common American idea. But China's leaders are afraid to let the americans take over. Huawei has cleverly exploited the mood of the Chinese people to portray itself as a national hero unafraid of American power. Whatever the outcome, huawei is the winner. ZTE, which succumbed to America, has long been reviled in China.

 

[gamoniac]

The idea that trade deficit is bad is a fallacy.
Let's say if the US splits the $540 billion of goods that we import from China, and instead buys the same amount from three other countries. Would we be better off?

Secondly, it makes economic sense to acquire goods from someone who can make it cheaper than we can. Just like it's cheaper and better to buy sushi from a restaurant than me preparing it myself. I would have to buy all the ingredients, a big bag of rice, rice vinegar, a big pack of seaweed, bamboo rolls, teriyaki sauce, wasabi, etc. When I dine at a restaurant, I wouldn't complain or demand the restaurant to buy my service/products (even though I think I make some mean fried rice and grilled cheese).

Lastly and most importantly, we can care less if China buys anything from us if we can sell the same items to someone else who is willing to pay us more. Imagine that.

That said, China does have unfair trade and knowledge transfer practice from what I read and hear. But they aren't going to just let US corporations going in their market and have free buffer. They have to protect their market (Brexit?), so we have to negotiate. It's just that all these have nothing to do with trade deficit. To me, the trade deficit talk is just politicians getting us all riled up.

 

[EClyde]

That's not our problem. They need to sort out their own screwed up system. As they are a totalitarian communist state it's irrelevant what anyone thinks anyway, even the Chinese people.
It's up to us to do the right thing by us. At the moment we are not.


Sure there are no domestic alternatives at the moment, that is because we have shut them down and handed our money to the Chinese to fulfill the requirements. There used to be domestic alternatives for everything. But if that gap became financially viable again local industry would step up to fill it. Yes there would be a gap though. Capitalism in action.

What many people consider a commodity are in fact a luxury and discretionary spending. A little humility would go a long way in stabilizing our society too. Very few actual commodities come from China.

"They need to sort out their own screwed up system."

 

[fps4ever]

I don't agree with you so now I'm "anti-US" and my "anti-US agenda is showing"



https://www.export.gov/article?id=China-Prohibited-and-Restricted-Imports

From what I'm seeing, their import and export restrictions are far from ridiculous. And no, your personal conjecture does not count as a source. Perhaps you should spend more time finding sources to prove your conjecture instead of making assumptions.



Did you actually read that article? It's about China refusing to accept terms given to it by the Trump administration in regards to a new trade deal. It has nothing to do with the point you were trying to prove. That should be obvious, the deal mentioned in the article hasn't even been agreed upon yet and was not the basis by which past transactions took place under. The only thing you making those words in bold proves is that you fell for the clickbait headline and forget to read the actual content of the article.



Not only are there no alternative products but the skilled labor, expertise, and supply chains are also all gone. TechSpot had an article not but a few months back that explained the difficulty Apple had making a single product in the united states. The product ended up being delayed because there was a utter lack of a kind of screw they needed and no one local could produce them in enough volume. They ended up ordering them from China.

Turing commodities into luxuries is humility and it's also the transformation from a global power to a 3rd world country. I do not believe the solution here is to turn the US into a 3rd world country to then maybe get back to being a world power.

LOL from what you are reading and implying in some article the import restrictions are not ridiculous. Um OK?

My posts and the tariff's have all been about the unfair trade deals. That is my entire point LOLOLOL

The click-bait article.....WTF? Go read the numerous articles on how China pulled out of the deal at the last minute. I'm sure you can find one you'll believe...

Your whole argument is we can't compete with cheap slave labor and cheap Chinese crap??? So we can't produce one screw fast enough we should shut up and keep the status quo...um no.

The fact that you are arguing against the US getting better trade deals out of China and vehemently replying back to anyone that disagrees with you tells me you are anti American. Yes, yes you are.

 

[raybk]

I wonder how much money Trump earns from controlling stock market by chaning his thinking from time to time.

 

[Sir Sparkles]

What I like about this situation is that it will set a precedent. Soon all the western world will deny the unfair deals and then the house of cards will tumble.
It's happened with China before.

 

[poohbear]

Trump is killing US: more expensive, more companies going to close.
US cannot compete with China and Trump rudely stops using this dirty way.
Trump will be the worst president in US history.
Shame on Trump. Never vote for him!

Maybe China should stop US from using gunpowder and paper since they were invented by China!

I have a sneaking suspicion that...you're Chinese! Is it the awkward English? The love of China in ur post? lol

Listen, China is a totalitarian state and I trust them as much as I trust a turnip to taste like chocolate. Sorry buddy, but until they adopt democracy and become MUCH more transparent, there's no trusting them.

And this is from someone that CAN'T STAND Trump. On this issue, we're united.

 

[Sir Sparkles]

Maybe the US&UK should stop China from using electricity, because they invented it.

 

[Evernessince]

LOL from what you are reading and implying in some article the import restrictions are not ridiculous. Um OK?

My posts and the tariff's have all been about the unfair trade deals. That is my entire point LOLOLOL

The click-bait article.....WTF? Go read the numerous articles on how China pulled out of the deal at the last minute. I'm sure you can find one you'll believe...

Your whole argument is we can't compete with cheap slave labor and cheap Chinese crap??? So we can't produce one screw fast enough we should shut up and keep the status quo...um no.

The fact that you are arguing against the US getting better trade deals out of China and vehemently replying back to anyone that disagrees with you tells me you are anti American. Yes, yes you are.

The great part about a comment like this is that you are so busy assuming that you haven't even bothered to submit a counter-argument. How about instead of putting words into other people's mouths you submit your own argument for once. And please make sure to read any links you post, wouldn't want another link like the last one where you quoted the title only to realize the content didn't support your point.

 

[fps4ever]

The great part about a comment like this is that you are so busy assuming that you haven't even bothered to submit a counter-argument. How about instead of putting words into other people's mouths you submit your own argument for once. And please make sure to read any links you post, wouldn't want another link like the last one where you quoted the title only to realize the content didn't support your point.

LOL I did post counter arguments in plain pics, links and all you did was post opinion feedback. Point out EXACTLY what you think I posted that didn't support my arguments...come on I dare you! Now you on the other hand offered no concrete evidence to support China is playing "fair" in your own words. Not one positive thing to say towards America's side either.

And the one thing about trolls, communists or anti American is they will try and deflect the argument(s) and or skirt around everything to avoid answering the direct question(s) asked of them. I can take it no other way. Patiently waiting for you to just point the finger back at me and offering nothing of an actual rebuttal.

Here is another link about the tech side of China's thievery in trade deals...
https://www.industryweek.com/trade/it-time-stand-china

Here is another link that lays more of it out. I'm sure you will not agree with at all.
http://stevetabb.com/

And another...
https://www.quora.com/What-exactly-...aging-and-what-is-the-best-way-to-combat-them

 

[Evernessince]

LOL I did post counter arguments in plain pics, links and all you did was post opinion feedback. Point out EXACTLY what you think I posted that didn't support my arguments...come on I dare you! Now you on the other hand offered no concrete evidence to support China is playing "fair" in your own words. Not one positive thing to say towards America's side either.

And the one thing about trolls, communists or anti American is they will try and deflect the argument(s) and or skirt around everything to avoid answering the direct question(s) asked of them. I can take it no other way. Patiently waiting for you to just point the finger back at me and offering nothing of an actual rebuttal.

Here is another link about the tech side of China's thievery in trade deals...
https://www.industryweek.com/trade/it-time-stand-china

Here is another link that lays more of it out. I'm sure you will not agree with at all.
http://stevetabb.com/

And another...
https://www.quora.com/What-exactly-...aging-and-what-is-the-best-way-to-combat-them

Let's breakdown this comment

1st half) Baiting and projection. No argument presented
2nd half) random link dump with no context, explanation, or argument.

But it looks like you posted a link again without reading the contents. I'm guess you didn't read the 3rd link at all

"What Trump doesn’t realize is that despite issues of not being a totally open market to foreign companies, they are doing a bang up business in China. The US, is well ahead of other countries monetizing the inflow of currency, jobs, and businesses.

“"Our economic interests with China are significant and growing," said Jacob Parker, vice president of the US-China Business Council, a trade group that represents US companies' interests in China. "China is a $600 billion market for the American economy."

How China gets what it wants from American companies

Here’s a sampling of US companies in China.

American Corporations in China

Apple, Nike and 18 other U.S. companies have $158 billion at stake in China trade war

“The $1.4 Trillion U.S. ‘Surplus’ That Trump’s Not Talking About. The U.S. has a surplus of $20 billion with China and $1.4 trillion with the rest of the world.

For China, the image of a massive trade deficit with the U.S. is at odds with the fact that Chinese consumers own more iPhones and buy more General Motors cars than U.S. consumers," wrote Zhang in the report. "These cars and phones are sold to China not through U.S. exports but through Chinese subsidiaries of multinational enterprises."”"

Ironic, this is the 2nd time you've done a good job proving my point with a link you thought supported your own. Oh and by the way, note how I just qouted? That's called supporting an argument. Make sure to do something alone those lines next time you post. A link dump is worthless if it doesn't have a point.

 

[fps4ever]

Let's breakdown this comment

1st half) Baiting and projection. No argument presented
2nd half) random link dump with no context, explanation, or argument.

But it looks like you posted a link again without reading the contents. I'm guess you didn't read the 3rd link at all

"What Trump doesn’t realize is that despite issues of not being a totally open market to foreign companies, they are doing a bang up business in China. The US, is well ahead of other countries monetizing the inflow of currency, jobs, and businesses.

“"Our economic interests with China are significant and growing," said Jacob Parker, vice president of the US-China Business Council, a trade group that represents US companies' interests in China. "China is a $600 billion market for the American economy."

How China gets what it wants from American companies

Here’s a sampling of US companies in China.

American Corporations in China

Apple, Nike and 18 other U.S. companies have $158 billion at stake in China trade war

“The $1.4 Trillion U.S. ‘Surplus’ That Trump’s Not Talking About. The U.S. has a surplus of $20 billion with China and $1.4 trillion with the rest of the world.

For China, the image of a massive trade deficit with the U.S. is at odds with the fact that Chinese consumers own more iPhones and buy more General Motors cars than U.S. consumers," wrote Zhang in the report. "These cars and phones are sold to China not through U.S. exports but through Chinese subsidiaries of multinational enterprises."”"

Ironic, this is the 2nd time you've done a good job proving my point with a link you thought supported your own. Oh and by the way, note how I just qouted? That's called supporting an argument. Make sure to do something alone those lines next time you post. A link dumb is worthless if it doesn't have a point.

“"Our economic interests with China are significant and growing," said Jacob Parker, vice president of the US-China Business Council, a trade group that represents US companies' interests in China. "China is a $600 billion market for the American economy."

LOL growing by what, how is it a $600 billion trade market for the US. Does he mean future potential we'll never see? How does that tie into trade?

FYI....All those iphones are made in CHINA!!!! With slave wages I might add. How on earth is that good for trade? We are talking about trade not companies in China boosting up their own economy with the cheapest human rights violating employees on the planet???

And you only talked about one link....good going ignoring things you can't argue. What about outright IP theft and fair trade? WE ARE TALKING TRADE HERE.

Very anti american replies....regardless of what you infer the is not about what Trump says in tweets. We all know Trump fubars facts all of the time.

 

[Evernessince]

“"Our economic interests with China are significant and growing," said Jacob Parker, vice president of the US-China Business Council, a trade group that represents US companies' interests in China. "China is a $600 billion market for the American economy."

LOL growing by what, how is it a $600 billion trade market for the US. Does he mean future potential we'll never see? How does that tie into trade?

FYI....All those iphones are made in CHINA!!!! With slave wages I might add. How on earth is that good for trade? We are talking about trade not companies in China boosting up their own economy with the cheapest human rights violating employees on the planet???

And you only talked about one link....good going ignoring things you can't argue. What about outright IP theft and fair trade? WE ARE TALKING TRADE HERE.

Very anti american replies.....

The funniest part of this is at this point you are arguing against your own links at this point. A second ago these links were going to vindicate you and now that you realize they don't prove your point they are bad.


The answer to your questions were already provided in the article you linked and the portion I quoted. A small section of 18 US companies alone make up $158 billion

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...es-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29

That's only 18 companies and doesn't even include agriculture.

And you only talked about one link....good going ignoring things you can't argue. What about outright IP theft and fair trade? WE ARE TALKING TRADE HERE.

That's because a no effort link dump doesn't require a per article reply. If you can't be bothered to read the articles you link and quote the parts that support your argument, then it's clear you have no intention of arguing on the facts. That much is obvious at this point, you even turned against articles you yourself linked simply because I revealed that they do not support your point.

Very anti american replies.....

Some of the greatest American heros were remembered not for the honey glazed falsehoods they spun to their countrymen but for the hard truth and solutions to those truths they provided.

 

[fps4ever]

The funniest part of this is at this point you are arguing against your own links at this point. A second ago these links were going to vindicate you and now that you realize they don't prove your point they are bad.


The answer to your questions were already provided in the article you linked and the portion I quoted. A small section of 18 US companies alone make up $158 billion

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...es-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29

That's only 18 companies and doesn't even include agriculture.



That's because a no effort link dumb doesn't require a per article reply. If you can't be bothered to read the articles you link and quote the parts that support your argument, then it's clear you have no intention of arguing on the facts. That much is obvious at this point, you even turned against articles you yourself linked simply because I revealed that they do not support your point.

I did read them...you pointing fingers back at me and addressing none of the points I made is beyond ridiculous. The links I provided do not prove my point, How so specifically? By Insulting me by saying I didn't read them is ridiculous. That market watch was your link not mine that you tried to tie back to me. Of course the trade war is going to hurt US companies and Chinese companies as well....nobody was arguing that. It's not about specific companies its about getting the best deal for the entire country in the long run.

Here I'll quote these again...

"FYI....All those iphones are made in CHINA!!!! With slave wages I might add. How on earth is that good for trade? We are talking about trade not companies in China boosting up their own economy with the cheapest human rights violating employees on the planet???

And you only talked about one link....good going ignoring things you can't argue. What about outright IP theft and fair trade? WE ARE TALKING TRADE HERE."

US consumers get raped by Apple prices and that's a good thing even though they are made in China? Large US corporations are finding out maybe cheapest labor on the planet doesn't make up for everything else...we need to get jobs back into the US.

If I get this straight your entire argument is it is going to hurt a few large corporations in the short term (yet to be seen) but the government is thinking long term with tariffs. You think its fair enough so leave it. The US government and I disagree. And some person that is on a US/CHina business relations board is apt to be bias towards not rocking the boat.

 

[Evernessince]

I did read them...you pointing fingers back at me and addressing none of the points I made is beyond ridiculous. The links I provided do not prove my point, How so specifically? By Insulting me by saying I didn't read them is ridiculous. That market watch was your link not mine that you tried to tie back to me.

It was a source provided from the article you linked. It's not insulting to say you don't read them, I've already proven it three times now. You didn't know the content of two links you provided and for the 3rd you didn't even realize the source was from your own link. If the facts sting that much perhaps you should stop digging that hole deeper.

And you only talked about one link....good going ignoring things you can't argue. What about outright IP theft and fair trade? WE ARE TALKING TRADE HERE."

That's because a no effort link dump doesn't require a per article reply. If you can't be bothered to read the articles you link and quote the parts that support your argument, then it's clear you have no intention of arguing on the facts. That much is obvious at this point, you even turned against articles you yourself linked simply because I revealed that they do not support your point.

I'm waiting for you to point out specific parts of your links that support the point you have presented.

US consumers get raped by Apple prices and that's a good thing even though they are made in China? Large US corporations are finding out maybe cheapest labor on the planet doesn't make up for everything else...we need to get jobs back into the US.

Of course no one is forcing US consumers to buy Apple products. If they are overspending on Apple products despite the low manufacturing costs it's because they don't care. Americans have been getting warned for decades to buy American and no one listened. Tariffs aren't some magic fix that will suddenly make manufacturing come back to the US. There aren't enough skilled workers to fill any potential new positions, laws overwhelmingly favor big business vs small businesses, and the infrastructure is crumbling among other obstacles. You want to bring manufacturers back to America? How about you fixing the fundamentals that support it first. Just as an example, it don't mean squat if a guy in Alabama designs a revolutionary medical device if GE coerces hospitals to use only their products, the small business ends up paying much more in taxes then GE, they don't have access to fast and decent priced internet (eCommerce is a requirement for modern businesses), and they have issues with the local roads allowing access for heavy freight truck.