Were We Wrong About Ryzen's Best Feature All Along?

[Steve]

Platform longevity helped define Ryzen's rise, but was it really the secret sauce? As Nova Lake and Zen 6 approach, we revisit AM4 to see how much socket support truly shaped the CPU market.

Read the full article here.

Were We Wrong About Ryzen's Best Feature All Along?

 

[TooQik]

My personal journey with Ryzen:

I bought into the AM4 platform in 2017 with a Ryzen 1700 ($445 AUD) and a X370 motherboard ($329 AUD), with my driving factor being value for money. This combination served me well until late 2020, when I simply upgraded to a Ryzen 5800X ($699 AUD). So AM4 has been good to me.

I went a full upgrade at the start of last year with a Ryzen 9800X3D and a X870E motherboard. I'm not expecting to upgrade again with this combination for some time, but there's a certain amount of peace of mind knowing AMD are looking to support the AM5 socket again for at least one, and possibly two, more generations.

 

[BogdanR]

It is something very satisfying to be able to play Ghost of Tsushima / Yotei or Indiana Jones at 1440p on a system I purchased in 2018 spotting a Ryzen 5 2600X / GTX 1080 which went thru a single upgrade to a 5700X and a RX 6800 six years later while the system was being transferred to Media PC duties.

I bought into the AMD platform specifically for this kind of flexibility and support.

 

[Endymio]

It is something very satisfying to be able to play Ghost of Tsushima / Yotei or Indiana Jones at 1440p on a system I purchased in 2018 spotting a Ryzen 5 2600X / GTX 1080 which went thru a single upgrade to a 5700X and a RX 6800 six years later while the system was being transferred to Media PC duties.

I bought into the AMD platform specifically for this kind of flexibility and support.

I honestly don't understand this mentality. So over the last eight years and (effectively) two separate systems, you saved the cost of one motherboard; a negligible amount compared to the total cost of all the other components in both systems.

Motherboards are no different than processors and video cards -- they get upgraded over time with enhanced performance and new features. Using a 5+ year old motherboard in a new system means you give up all that. Older WiFi and USB standards, potentially slower memory, narrower PCI buses, and the ever-present spectre of sunsetted BIOS support. You can obviate some of that with add-in cards ... but then there goes the cost savings of retaining the motherboard.

 

[user556]

My 2017 B350 mobo got a fresh BIOS update this year. Nine years of updates and counting.

 

[fadingfool]

I honestly don't understand this mentality. So over the last eight years and (effectively) two separate systems, you saved the cost of one motherboard; a negligible amount compared to the total cost of all the other components in both systems.

Motherboards are no different than processors and video cards -- they get upgraded over time with enhanced performance and new features. Using a 5+ year old motherboard in a new system means you give up all that. Older WiFi and USB standards, potentially slower memory, narrower PCI buses, and the ever-present spectre of sunsetted BIOS support. You can obviate some of that with add-in cards ... but then there goes the cost savings of retaining the motherboard.

My 2017 motherboard already had USB 3.1 and a USB C port and whilst the PCIE maxes out at 3.0 it has 3 full length slots. Whilst it is only gigbit ethernet it has 2 of these so if I ever got over 1 Gb/s internet I could bridge the connections (I'm only on 500 Mbps so not a problem). Wifi - 802.11ac - technically slower than my wifi router can MIMO up to but irrelevent when I use ethernet. Only had a single M.2 NVME slot but I've added 2 more via PCIE cards.... Of course though this is an intel X299 board with a i9-7980XE 18 core cpu which will keep me going for a little while yet (I expect to get 10 years at least). What is there that requires more than what a 2017 motherboard can give? (PS originally had a i7 7820X but "upgraded" to the i9 last year for just over £100). PPS I have friends that bought into the AM4 platform and are now on 5000 series CPUs after starting on either 1000 or 2000 series ryzen. In total we have probably spent the same but their machines are a little bit faster in games (I also use mine for work so stability of platform (as in the fewer the changes the better) is a consideration).

 

[amstech]

9800X3Ds are crashing all over. I nearly did a custom build with one but opted out last minute. A year ago the reviews on my 265K were spot on but things have changed some, better performance, better stability and lower cost. While Intels focus shift to Nova Lake is dissapointing, Im very happy with it. With a years time of Windows and BIOS updates its matured into a great CPU, and I got my MSI Aegis RS2 for $1900 shipped on Newegg, just the RAM and GPU cost $1800.
Coming from a Coffee Lake 9700 and GTX 1080 its quite the upgrade. I like AMD CPUs and hope AMD continue to bring the competition. Its rattled Intel and Nova Lake looks to be quite good, however we will see.
However for myself, I'm loving this 265K and RTX 5070Ti, the 1440p gaming experience is amazing and Im set for several years.

 

[j4ni1]

I honestly don't understand this mentality. So over the last eight years and (effectively) two separate systems, you saved the cost of one motherboard; a negligible amount compared to the total cost of all the other components in both systems.

At that time GPUs and memory were much less expensive, thus a mainboard's cost was a larger part of the total system cost. Also the R5 2600X was a capable gaming CPU usually not much slower than the best best i5's (that were 4c4t) with much better MT performance on the RyZEN's side. With time the 6c12t Ryzen 2600X became faster and less stuttery than its i5 counterpart.

So buying RyZEN 2600X at the time was a good decission even without considering platform longevity

 

[Loadedaxe]

If I had to go back to DDR4 to save money on a build, I’d choose the 12600K at $169 paired with a B760 DDR4 motherboard for under $120. For around $280 total, that would be a solid system that should comfortably last the next few years.

In comparison, a 5700X build would end up costing well over $330, making the 12600K setup the better value option in this scenario.

 

[Lew Zealand]

I honestly don't understand this mentality. So over the last eight years and (effectively) two separate systems, you saved the cost of one motherboard; a negligible amount compared to the total cost of all the other components in both systems.

Motherboards are no different than processors and video cards -- they get upgraded over time with enhanced performance and new features. Using a 5+ year old motherboard in a new system means you give up all that. Older WiFi and USB standards, potentially slower memory, narrower PCI buses, and the ever-present spectre of sunsetted BIOS support. You can obviate some of that with add-in cards ... but then there goes the cost savings of retaining the motherboard.

That's $100 to $150 saved which gets you a better video card or better CPU or double your memory, each of which has a greater impact on performance than adding some Mobo features which you may or may not ever use. My kid is still using his 2018 B350 and I'm still using my B450 because they still work with a 5800XT and 5700X3D, both of which cost only a bit more than a Mobo itself. I'll take just the CPU upgrade for half to 2/3 the cost instead.

The only one of your old Mobo concerns which are relevant for mostly gaming usecases is narrower PCI which is about a 1-2% bottleneck, as our boards all have USB-C (LOL which we never use). In fact the useful things a newer mobo would get are more fan headers and better m.2 support but performance and cooling are working as well as they have for the past 8 years so no need to change it.

And to put it bluntly: tossing out old equipment that still works ~95% as well as replacement equipment is disposable society BS that I choose not to participate in.

 

[Endymio]

The only one of your old Mobo concerns which are relevant for mostly gaming usecases is narrower PCI ... In fact the useful things a newer mobo would get are more fan headers and better m.2 support

A motherboard from 2018 is going to have at most Wifi 5 support, giving up both Wifi 6 and 7. Nor will it support the higher-speed DDR4 that's available today. Those are not trivial losses.

And to put it bluntly: tossing out old equipment that still works ~95% as well as replacement equipment is disposable society BS that I choose not to participate in.

You have it in reverse. If you purchase a system with motherboard included, that leaves the old system intact, which can then be sold or passed on to others. Scavenging the motherboard from an old system leaves you with a pile of parts. Even if you eventually sell those components, it still only takes you to the level of the original approach: buy an entire new system, and leave the old one functional.

 

[jbc029]

A motherboard from 2018 is going to have at most Wifi 5 support, giving up both Wifi 6 and 7. Nor will it support the higher-speed DDR4 that's available today. Those are not trivial losses.


You have it in reverse. If you purchase a system with motherboard included, that leaves the old system intact, which can then be sold or passed on to others. Scavenging the motherboard from an old system leaves you with a pile of parts. Even if you eventually sell those components, it still only takes you to the level of the original approach: buy an entire new system, and leave the old one functional.

I guess my son's B350 with a 5800x3d and 16GB of cl14 3600 isn't a thing then.

Or that PCIe x1 wifi 6 adapter.

Oh wait. The board that started off with a 1700 in it turned out be exactly what this story was about.

A 1700 > 3700x > 5800x3d and one memory kit upgrade from 2933 to 3600.

 

[opckieran]

Even if 12th-14th gen Intel CPUs were ~15% faster than Zen 3 (a lead which basically dropped to 0 when gaming at 1440p+), they ran much hotter and used significantly more power. So not only were the Intel CPUs themselves significantly more expensive, you needed a bigger PSU and 240/280mm liquid cooling to actually get the full performance out of them. So in those days you'd be spending $150-200 more on the equivalent CPU, and another $100-150 on the cooler and PSU.

Not to mention the initial teething issues of Alder Lake being the first P/e-core implementation to run Windows. Or the degradation issues of the 13/14th gen. All in all, LGA1700 was a terrible platform, unless you were buying a non-K i5 for a budget build. The 12400 had only P-cores, and by 13th and 14th gen, software had largely adapted to the architecture.

Or the fact that many people (outside of the 0.1% of edge cases who genuinely needed an Intel CPU) voluntarily bought a desktop Intel platform after Zen 2 launched (let alone Zen 3), knowing how dead-end it would be and that Intel, like clockwork, would be laughing all the way to the bank off the backs of the people who bought into it anyways...

 

[agentnate009]

When I learned that AMD would support multiple CPU generations on a single socket, I started planning on what I was going to get to replace my aging Athlon x3 435 system. In 2017, I got a 2600X, ASUS ROG HERO VII X470, 16GB of RAM, and an RX 570 4GB (thanks to the first crypto boom). I splurged for a high-end motherboard rather than the value motherboard that I typically went with. Since then I have upgraded CPU from 2600X to a used 3800X to a new 5800X that I got for $126 from Newegg. Memory was doubled to 32GB. GPU went from RX 570 4GB to RTX 3060Ti and now an RX 9070. I plan to hold out until AM6 with current system since I game at 1440p and have room to lower graphical settings and even resolution. Future upgrades on the same platform were a selling point for me. Getting potentially 14-15 years out of one motherboard is crazy, barring anything catastrophic occurring to my system.

 

[Endymio]

I guess my son's B350 with a 5800x3d and 16GB of cl14 3600 isn't a thing then.

Or that PCIe x1 wifi 6 adapter.

The cost of that add-in Wifi adaptor subtracted how much from what you saved by scavenging the old motherboard? And it still didn't get you Wifi 7 nor USB 4.0. And Zen 3 CPUs and DDR4 ram have been outdated since 2022 ... a new motherboard would have allowed you into the realm of Zen 4/5, and DDR5. Instead, you spent money to lock yourself further into the past.

No one's saying that, all else being equal, the option to retain the motherboard during a CPU upgrade isn't useful in some cases. But not nearly useful enough to base your entire buying decision around it.

 

[Lew Zealand]

A motherboard from 2018 is going to have at most Wifi 5 support, giving up both Wifi 6 and 7. Nor will it support the higher-speed DDR4 that's available today. Those are not trivial losses.

That old B350 supports DDR4-3200 which is more than fast enough, same with the B450. Above that is again wasting money on 1% differences, same as PCIe 3 vs 4. And I still have never bought a WiFi-enabled board.

You have it in reverse. If you purchase a system with motherboard included, that leaves the old system intact, which can then be sold or passed on to others. Scavenging the motherboard from an old system leaves you with a pile of parts. Even if you eventually sell those components, it still only takes you to the level of the original approach: buy an entire new system, and leave the old one functional.

I choose not to purchase an additional 8 components as a set just to improve the single aspect that needs it. This is the point of buying and building your own PC. At that point you might as well buy a new console gen every 7 years because that's where the best component efficiency exists. The game devs are locked into that hardware and will design that way for 7 years and the at the end of that cycle, you replace the whole thing with a single new more capable unit. And resell the old one to someone. I choose not to do this but it's a good option for many people and relatively inexpensive to boot.

 

[jbc029]

The cost of that add-in Wifi adaptor subtracted how much from what you saved by scavenging the old motherboard? And it still didn't get you Wifi 7 nor USB 4.0. And Zen 3 CPUs and DDR4 ram have been outdated since 2022 ... a new motherboard would have allowed you into the realm of Zen 4/5, and DDR5. Instead, you spent money to lock yourself further into the past.

No one's saying that, all else being equal, the option to retain the motherboard during a CPU upgrade isn't useful in some cases. But not nearly useful enough to base your entire buying decision around it.

The motherboard wasn't scavenged. It's the original build, handed down to him. The only parts that changed in the PC between the initial build and today were the CPU (because each was a substantial upgrade), RAM (one of the original sticks died) and eventually, video card (an old mining Vega56 to a 3080 12GB).

$45 for a wifi6 card. $210 for the 3700x on BF sale. $430 for the 5800x3d. $130 for a new ram kit (which would have had to happen anyway because the old set failed)

$825 to take a 2018 platform from fairly good 8 years ago to still fairly good today.

*No one* is saying new builds should start on AM4, these days.

It is true, objectively, that if you started there when AM4 was new, you could have a decent PC even by today's standard, by only swapping in new CPUs and adding a single wifi card. Running a 5800x3d or a 5950x/5900xt system isn't terrible by any reasonable assessment.

 

[mi1stormilst]

It always rubbed me the wrong way how often I felt compelled to upgrade my Intel systems because of a new socket. AM4 and AM5 have mostly been good to most people and have options is always great. Retiring a perfectly functional platform is a crime for your wallet and the planet. I love having the option to repurpose a system for a different function or to pass one to a family member. It is an added bonus that there is almost always an upgrade path years and years later on the AMD platform. I was on Intel only for a long time, but the socket **** finally got to me and I switched about two years ago. Now all my Intel system are doing other things for someone else.

 

[sreams]

9800X3Ds are crashing all over.

Only on specific motherboard brands. It's pretty easy to build a 9800X3D system and gaurantee this doesn't happen.

 

[dankbot420]

Platform longevity is one of the only thing that matters. I got really tired of Intel changing sockets every other week.

 

[Ethair]

I3 530, gtx460, 1156 socket, (2010)
to i5 750 for 30 bucks and a graciously given gtx 570. (around 2014-2015)

then r7 1700, gtx1070, am4, (2018)
to 5700x3d on sale, used 4070ti, +16GB RAM (late 2024)

so indeed roughly each 4-5 years.

Intel smelled artificial segmentation with their sockets, same as (K)parts on the cpus at the time,

 

[Axeia]

I honestly don't understand this mentality. So over the last eight years and (effectively) two separate systems, you saved the cost of one motherboard; a negligible amount compared to the total cost of all the other components in both systems.

Motherboards are no different than processors and video cards -- they get upgraded over time with enhanced performance and new features. Using a 5+ year old motherboard in a new system means you give up all that. Older WiFi and USB standards, potentially slower memory, narrower PCI buses, and the ever-present spectre of sunsetted BIOS support. You can obviate some of that with add-in cards ... but then there goes the cost savings of retaining the motherboard.

Because those features are often irrelevant? I started with a b450 and Ryzen 1600AF. Upgraded later on to an extremely good deal on a 5800X. Separately the GPU underwent some changes from AMD Fury to RX290 to RX580 to GTX1070 to RX 6700 XT.
Did I ever miss any features motherboard wise I actually care about? No. Heck even now the only thing I'd care about would be PCIE 5 in case the graphics card or storage gets updated and that would be for a negligible performance difference. Or maybe 10 Gbit ethernet but the other equipment is still too expensive.
USB? don't care, what I use it for 2.0 works fine other than installing windows once every 4 years or something it sees no use where speeds matter.
WiFi speeds? Who cares, run a wire, far more reliable and consistent. Your latency in games still be much better.

If I were to upgrade to AM5 I still wouldn't care about these things. Heck, if there was a motherboard option that was 50 bucks cheaper and would have AM4 level features except for the socket I'd go with that. Especially with current RAM prices.

The 1600 AF got a super cheap move to a second hand motherboard and ECC memory to make for a super stable home server as well. AM4 motherboards have gotten super cheap due to their longevity.

I don't get people that are keeping up with the latest standards when it's often things they don't use or do infrequently and at such little benefit.
I haven't felt a need to buy an expansion card in the last 20 years other than a USB sound card because my microphone quality has been bad on several motherboards. Added benefit is that I stopped having to look for SPDIF on the motherboards themselves which often adds the cost of a simple soundcard.
I suppose technically I also use a USB hub but that's just to place USB ports in a more convenient location.

 

[smolenkuboom]

Its like these companies dont care...people who ran them....and I think they hang on on some idea of "attachment to brand" mentality...ohhh no...fool me once ,fool me twice but...3rd? 🖐
Intel need to stay on the same socket for next few gens....not because people will stay and upgrade and jump lets say from 1st to 3rd gen - which I believe not many actually do...number of these users r one % digit number....but to give customers peace of mind...that the company will support platform for a long term. Also, Its a good time to stay on same socket 4 longer now...current I/O will be sufficient 4 many years to come...so maybe this time around that number might be greater...

Intel got a chance to bounce back though coz even after that fool me 3rd time fail...in tech world to be successful all u need is to release a good product at even better price not that Intel has ever done that...but stil

 

[James321]

AM5 has mostly been underwhelming upgrade from AM4, longevity matters and maybe the last Zen 7 might finally be something worthwhile on AM5. But at this point you can just as well wait for AM6.

I personally will skip AM5 entirely.

 

[LimyG]

Clearly multiple gen - same socket is excellent to have and appealing.

Good article, and plenty of opinions on this so I want to ask a genuine question.

What is the average life expectancy of a mid range mobo vs mid range CPU.
Same question for Cheap mobo - low end of range CPU. Then the best motherboards with the flagship CPU.

I've never had a CPU fail. My i9 9900ks runs fulltime, all the time at 5.21GHz and has been for years. Still using the original AsRock Z390 Phantom gaming 9 mobo as well. This high spec combo has served me well.

However I have had several motherboards pack up and die. One was a Gigabyte Formula OC matched with an Ivy Bridge i7 3700k. The chip was fine and worked great in a new, but different brand mobo.

A similar thing happened with my ancient i7 940 (1st gen core, before SandyBridge). I admit that was my first self built PC so the failing mobo just might have been some installation error on my side.

Regardless, I've owned many CPUs and many motherboards over the past 18 years. All Intel sockets. In total 3 mobos died (one may have been my fault). No CPU, always overclocked has ever failed.

Not exactly on topic I know, but curious about others experiences with longetivity of hardware; - motherboards compared to CPUs?

EDIT: I'll call it longetivity from a different perspective. Pure Hardware reliability regardless of socket/sockets - brand, AMD/Intel.