What is TPM and why does Windows 11 require it?

captaincranky

Posts: 17,375   +6,125
Soo worried Microsoft might know what your favourite porn site is, you all just forgo any security that actually protects you from real harm.
Here's the thing, I don't pirate or cheat at games. Since well, I'm not a gamer Otherwise I'd be here bellyaching about not being able to get a hold of a GTX-3xxx series card, long, loud, and daily.

But since you mention it, I don't want M$ to know my favorite porn site. And for everybody's sake, I don't want VPNs to become useless because of TPM, or a confluence of other "improvements" being made in the way we access the web.

First, nobody with an Intel CPU before the 8xxx will even be able to install Windows 11. So kidz, this goes far beyond, "planned obsolescence", to. "forced obsolescence". And you can bet the component manufacturers are licking their chops about the bone, (with mucho, mucho, meat on it), that this turd Nadella just threw them.

Second, there is a confluence of events going on in addition to M$ implementing TPM.

Whoever publishes "Captcha", thinks it would be a great idea to, "do away with it completely", and issue a key which identifies the exact machine trying to access a server, (for whatever reason).

And last, but perhaps most serious, there is now malware in the wild, which blocks Pirate Bay, and rats on you for pirating just about anything..

This is courtesy of @Danny101 , and waddaya know, our staff writers seem to have conveniently missed writing an article about it.
Here's Danny's thread about this "interwebz police trojan" and my thoughts on the topic:


I can't control your feelings on the topic overall, but, I am almost certain with these three things in play at once, any and all freedom you ever had on the web will be gone.

I'd consider it a personal favour if you would visit that link, and look up the article about doing away with Captcha..

As an afterthought, about 15 tears ago Sony BMI actually planted, a rootkit in their CDs to prevent copying. Keep in mind that making backups of music you own, is legal. But it would appear that software and content providers had themselves a big old smoke filled room meetin', and conjured up this "vigilante" nonsense, to stick it to as many people as possible, along with providing themselves with, "plausible deniability", (along with every penny they can possibly squeeze out of you, us, whomever).

Also, keep in mind the turd running M$, Satya Nadella, (IMHO) is a glorified "H1-B visa recipient", who's putting the screws to everybody he possibly can, for likely about 1/10 the money Bill Gates was making. Were he employed in the lower echelons of our societies, he is someone a union worker might refer to as a, "scab".

Just a few random thoughts on my part, enjoy..
 
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Bullwinkle M

Posts: 560   +446
Are Ransomware and Wipers Legal ?

Is Blackmail and Extortion Legal ?

Virus's / malware / Bugs (features) ?

If not, All Microsoft employees would be in Prison by now

I love how Microsoft's Spyware Platform users are getting hit with ransomware and wipers across the globe

3rd party malware like Spyware, Blackmailware, Extortionware/Ransomware and Wipers are absolutely no different than Microsoft's "Windows" or Windows Updates

Adding a disclaimer and a (one sided) End Loser Licensing Agreement should make everyones malware "Legal and Binding"

That's what Microsoft does!

If it's good for the Goose........
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 544   +419
That's ridiculous. People have a right to reasonable privacy and security. That includes being anonymous when in public, shopping, or online.

Security is necessary, but it should be up to the individual to decide when or how they enable it. Not a corporation.


What dream world are you living it ??? - You really think you are anonymous online - maybe with your non- Tpm computer , your vpn, your tor- browser - from a public hub. No idea what the best M.O. is - I don't care . You think 5 Eyes can't watch or target you . You have a phone yes - we know your location- even with your location turned off . Have bank and credit cards - we know what you buy . Have a car , walk in public = you get recorded . If someone in an ISP or Apple , Google , MS etc personally search you and are found out - they can lose their job - and be prosecuted ( chances won't happen -as companies swept it under carpet ) . I worked for the IRS for a short while - I could pull any record except those that were protected ( funnily IRS employees were protected ) - having read at least 1 spy novel - you do not want to be tracked - blend in - be normal , boring .
Let's be specific -Show me the Beef - Show me MS collects and keeps a Facebook like profile on you . I'm going to be brutal now - what's the difference between you and no-maskers at the local bank/Walmart ??? Nothing- You want to play on servers , use private companies resources - want to be anonymous - don't enter. I'm going to be more brutal - most folks going on about privacy are Americans - You know what the average American does not give a toss about the rights of Aliens ( yes that is what you call us ) - Hell the US has still to sign a some UN charters for Human rights - that nearly every other country has signed . Americans happily give Corporations more rights to maim , kill and exploit , steal IP of developing countries will at worse a slap with a wet bus ticket - How many Directors, CEOs are behind prison for stealing funds, lapse safety leading to death.
I take your pleads for privacy not very seriously - You guys complain about EUs holding your MS, FB, Google , Apples to account to protect your privacy. We have data protection acts - except the USA fines companies peanuts for massive breaches - why is that?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,375   +6,125
Let's be specific -Show me the Beef - Show me MS collects and keeps a Facebook like profile on you . I'm going to be brutal now - what's the difference between you and no-maskers at the local bank/Walmart ??? Nothing- You want to play on servers , use private companies resources - want to be anonymous - don't enter. I'm going to be more brutal - most folks going on about privacy are Americans -
Well first, this is absurd. Google doesn't even need employees to dig into your personal information, they have massive server farms to do that for them. Google has also made itself omnipresent, a practical impossibility to, "just not enter". Try to sue Google for just about anything, and you'll run into literally hundreds of lawyers. And most certainly, they'll cover up any misconduct on the part of an individual employee. (A quiet dismissal, without any publicity, nothing more). After all, they don't want their, "good reputation", ruined, now do they?
How many Directors, CEOs are behind prison for stealing funds, lapse safety leading to death.
I use, "Opera", as my principal browser. It is "Chrome" based, and trust me, it follows you around the web as if it were Chrome itself. As for Google's, "targeted ads", I haven't bought Jack squat from a single one, word.

As for Amazon's, "recommended for you" ad spam, those humps need to get their algorithms straight, since half the crap they want me to buy, I bought from them months, if not years ago.
You know what the average American does not give a toss about the rights of Aliens ( yes that is what you call us ) - Hell the US has still to sign a some UN charters for Human rights - that nearly every other country has signed .
I take it from your screen alias that you're from New Zealand, and named "Graham" (Yeah I know, we spell it funny). Explain to me how if, "we don't give a toss about the rights of aliens", how in god's name were you able to get a job with our IRS, which does, if I'm correct, require some level of security clearance?

Funny story: I got stopped behind Philly International, trying to take sunset photos. So an airport security guard forced me to stop. (Keep in mind I'm an American citizen, was born here, and at 70+, am well aged out of any terrorist plot schemes, which I never had to begin with). I could barely understand what he was saying, due to his thick Slavic accent. I thought the Russians had taken over the airport. But as it turned out, he is Polish. (Which come to think of it, is a former Soviet block country) As it turns out we aren't treating "aliens" so bad after all.

As for the US, "not signing human rights charters", the UN will let any hellhole sign one of their charters, then go back to said country and ignore it completely, as if it never happened.
I take your pleads for privacy not very seriously - You guys complain about EUs holding your MS, FB, Google , Apples to account to protect your privacy. We have data protection acts - except the USA fines companies peanuts for massive breaches - why is that?
To the upside Bernie Madoff just died in prison. Granted though, their are plenty of "white collar criminals on the loose". It seems we protect their privacy, a little too well.

As for the US, "not signing human rights charters", the UN will let any hellhole sign one of their charters, then go back to said country and ignore it completely, as if it never happened.

And hey, how about that, (whoever it was), who anonymously started, "Bitcoin". Apparently you don't even have to sign your name to start a "currency" of your own. What today's web hypnotized individuals call, "block chain", we uninformed individuals of the past used to call, "chain letters".
 
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kiwigraeme

Posts: 544   +419
Well first, this is absurd. Google doesn't even need employees to dig into your personal information, they have massive server farms to do that for them. Google has also made itself omnipresent, a practical impossibility to, "just not enter". Try to sue Google for just about anything, and you'll run into literally hundreds of lawyers. And most certainly, they'll cover up any misconduct on the part of an individual employee. (A quiet dismissal, without any publicity, nothing more). After all, they don't want their, "good reputation", ruined, now do they?

I use, "Opera", as my principal browser. It is "Chrome" based, and trust me, it follows you around the web as if it were Chrome itself. As for Google's, "targeted ads", I haven't bought Jack squat from a single one, word.

As for Amazon's, "recommended for you" ad spam, those humps need to get their algorithms straight, since half the crap they want me to buy, I bought from them months, if not years ago.

I take it from your screen alias that you're from New Zealand, and named "Graham" (Yeah I know, we spell it funny). Explain to me how if, "we don't give a toss about the rights of aliens", how in god's name were you able to get a job with our IRS, which does, if I'm correct, require some level of security clearance?

As for the US, "not signing human rights charters", the UN will let any hellhole sign one of their charters, then go back to said country and ignore it completely, as if it never happened.

To the upside Bernie Madoff just died in prison

As for the US, "not signing human rights charters", the UN will let any hellhole sign one of their charters, then go back to said country and ignore it completely, as if it never happened.

Granted though, their are plenty of "white collar criminals on the loose". It seems we protect their privacy, a little too well.

And hey, how about that, (whoever it was), who anonymously started, "Bitcoin". Apparently you don't even have to sign your name to start a "currency" of your own. What today's individuals call, "block chain", we uninformed individuals of the past used to call, "chain letters".

Hi Captain - I worked for the I.R.D ( NZ ) - same as I.R.S - when I first visited the States in 1988 - NZ had lost it's friendly nation status for banning nuclear power warships ( and those with nuclear weapons ) from entering NZ waters - so needed special clearance to visit JPL - a lot of defense work is done on site .
Yeah you use Opera etc - that's my point as well - folks here can use linux without tpm - non-apple, non-google phones . I want TPM to protect the average or vulnerable user - I even want banks to refuse transfers if Team Viewer installed . Sure people will still get exploited - but let's not make it too easy .
Real Liberaltarians will do their thing and let others get on with theirs .

United States has failed to ratify crucial human rights documents, such as the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD), and the American Convention on Human Rights, notwithstanding its endorsement of the American Declaration of the Rights and Duties of Man. Plus diluted others they have signed
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,375   +6,125
Hi Captain - I worked for the I.R.D ( NZ ) - same as I.R.S - when I first visited the States in 1988 - NZ had lost it's friendly nation status for banning nuclear power warships ( and those with nuclear weapons ) from entering NZ waters - so needed special clearance to visit JPL - a lot of defense work is done on site .
OK, in spite of the nuclear arms issue, it's my impression that both ANZAC nations and the US are still good friends. In fact, Japan hasn't truly forgiven us for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and won't allow any nuclear vessels or arms in their waters either, yet our nations are considered, "friends and allies". (This might be out of Japan's convenience, since they screwed the Chinese over thoroughly in WWII, before they bombed Pearl Harbor). Yet they conveniently forget about about, "the death march to Bataan", and Kamikaze airplanes. But I digress.

As for "human rights", it's my experience that the more you give people, they more they want. For example, one cop kills one detainee, and the entire country just about.burns to the ground.

Yet the most recent crop of African American, (many juvenile) sociopaths, in my city, are on target to hit about 500 murders this year. I'm of the bizarre opinion that that community should clean its own house first, before they starting burning and looting everything in sight. And their parents, should accept responsibility for this lawless crop of sociopaths they have so, "successfully" imbued with their, "values", before they start whining to government to fix it for them.

IMO, civil rights should only be bestowed on those willing and able to live up to them.

So, yes, I'm a bit right of center, but no, I still think Trump is an abomination and a piece of sh!t with no redeeming qualities, and didn't vote for him.

Not sure, but I may have dragged us "a bit off topic".

With that thought in mind, "hey about that Windows 11"? I thought it was never going to happen. Broken promises and lies, that's all you get from the sociopaths running large corporations.

Yes, the clever sociopaths wind up lording their power over you, while the violent, just wind up in jail.

BTW, do you think anyone should be allowed to just stroll into the Jet Propulsion Labs? (You did mean the US JPL, did you not)? I stand no chance of getting the "10 cent tour", and I was born here.
 
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moon982

Posts: 67   +17
TPM isn't designed to stop ransomware, that would be the host based anti-virus. To run alternative software turn off secure boot. Teaching end users about phishing is a way better tool. TPM does protect someone's credentials when used with a PKI system, you can lock down a single user to a single device.

Is the TPN similar to Apple T2 chip? If I understand TPN is not designed to stop malware like viruses, spyware, adware and ransomware and such.

That TPN is designed for tampering of computer hardware and theft. But how likely is some one going to walk into server room or some large business and do that.
 

moon982

Posts: 67   +17
Why is 1st and 2nd Gen Ryzen CPU's not compatible even though they have fTPM 2.0 enabled CPU's. What is the difference between 3rd and 4th gen Ryzens fTPM vs that of 1st and 2nd?. This question also applies to Intel's CPU's as well

Is TPM open source?

If not may be there is other firmware in the newer models doing spyware? There was conspiracies going around on Intel Management Engine being backdoor to Intel and the NSA doing spyware.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/is-the-intel-management-engine-a-backdoor/

An OS hidden in the CPU.

It odd why it is not compatible and what real motive is.

 

moon982

Posts: 67   +17
TPM, at the moment, doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is the fact that Home Edition will require a MS user account to install and setup the OS - trying to do an offline install won't be possible. Pro edition will allow setup of the OS when installing offline.

Also, with how poorly MS has handled forced Windows 10 updates, I have zero faith that Windows 11 will be handled any different.

Just make an account get it set up than log out of the account and never log back in. And problem solved.
 

moon982

Posts: 67   +17
How many ransomware attacks have been prevented by TPM?

Requiring the likes of TPM and Secureboot doesnt improve security. They remove control and choice from the end user, and introduce yet another avenue that can be used to spy on the individual. They dont stop ransomware, and they just happen to make it harder to run alternative software to Microsoft's operating system of choice.
Secureboot is to stop rootkits.

Unless you think it is to stop people switching to Linux. But than there is number of Linux distro now that run on secureboot.
 

moon982

Posts: 67   +17
I'm happy that MS is finally taking responsibility out of the hands of the incompetent. The people that run badly outdated software, or refuse to allow updates to Windows are ALWAYS the first to ***** and moan and blame someone else when something goes wrong. Even though they very much deserve it.

Ransomware was mostly going after home user the kids, mon, dad, grandma and grandpa that click on every thing, install every thing and think nothing will happen. The people that get confused when Firefox app gets moved from left to right of the desktop and them call tech support where is my Firefox app. Those types of people.

Well now ransomware is now a million dollar business going after utility companies, schools, government buildings and hospitals. Where the pay of is higher.

Well taking responsibility out of the hands of the incompetent home users not really going to help unless you mean taking the responsibility out of the hands of the business and governments.Where it has shifted now.
 

moon982

Posts: 67   +17
TPM is a very complex system that nobody seems to know anything about. It must have the ability to send and receive encrypted information over the internet, without your knowledge. It operates invisibly below the regular OS, constantly checking on things. That is the recipe for massive invasion of privacy.
Here how you could may be tell if TPN is spyware. Get computer with TPN, install Linux than install packet sniffer. See if being connected to the internet if there bandwidth being used.

As there should be no network traffic. You cant use Windows as they go out looking for updates and other telemetry. So lightweight linux distro would be better.
 

JamesBlond

Posts: 134   +81
Nothing to do with Security, all to do with control, knowing what you do, when you do it, how you do it, which sites you visit linking hardware to software to your name to your mac address to your IP to your life, all data stored for later examination during your trial...which trial, the one you are on because you didnt do what they asked.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,518   +4,905
Though I will probably have to buy new hardware for my HTPC anyway, perhaps we will finally get playback of UHD Blu-ray on AMD based systems instead of the asinine requirement of Intel only procs using the already been hacked Intel SGX. :rolleyes:

I know, I know, call be old fashioned. :p

I bet, however, that there will be many people who will not buy new hardware just to run Windohs 11.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,229   +2,280
Though I will probably have to buy new hardware for my HTPC anyway, perhaps we will finally get playback of UHD Blu-ray on AMD based systems instead of the asinine requirement of Intel only procs using the already been hacked Intel SGX. :rolleyes:

I know, I know, call be old fashioned. :p
Oh god, that would be great! Wouldn't need a dedicated player (finally).
Even if you have a compatible Intel CPU, just whack a dedicated GPU in and you lose compatibility anyway. It's the worst implementation of DRM I have ever seen. It's basically impossible to use UHD Disks on PC unless you're happy to use integrated graphics on specific Intel CPU's.
 

fadingfool

Posts: 233   +231
I activated the TPM via the bios and fired up the health check and "Great news - this PC meets all the system requirements for windows 11, and it's free. We'll let you know when it's ready to install." Yet my CPU didn't make the cut (i7 7820X) - I suspect there might be some wriggle room in the "requirements".
I won't be rushing to install it though - can't move the taskbar to the top of the desktop where I prefer it.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 683   +449
I think many of you are taking a near-sighted approach to Windows 11, & really don't understand what Microsoft is ushering in.

MS has reworked the original NT kernal and this OS is different. Even though it is not. TPM2.0 is the start of what is to come, in giving the end-user a secure space to be you...


Windows 10 Pro USB retail is $180+ and most Here probably got it for less than $10 bucks, or for free... and will get W11 for free too....!

Nobody has to upgrade & Win10 will be supported for a while, but those who are able to upgrade to Win11, will Orchestrate in a more secure funspace. Ai will be part of what is coming, but Shhhh on that and just understand, end-user integrity has to come before system AI.
 
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JamesBlond

Posts: 134   +81
I think many of you are taking a near-sighted approach to Windows 11, & really don't understand what Microsoft is ushering in.

MS has reworked the original NT kernal and this OS is different. Even though it is not. TPM2.0 is the start of what is to come, in giving the end-user a secure space to be you...


Windows 10 Pro USB retail is $180+ and most Here probably got it for less than $10 bucks, or for free... and will get W11 for free too....!

Nobody has to upgrade & Win10 will be supported for a while, but those who are able to upgrade to Win11, will Orchestrate in a more secure funspace. Ai will be part of what is coming, but Shhhh on that and just understand, end-user integrity has to come before system AI.
Windows 10 never cost more than $10
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,375   +6,125
FWIW, M$ wouldn't even let me look at the Windows 10 product page, without giving them an email address so they can spam the sh!t out of me.

Of ever want Windows 10, (which is highly unlikely), I'll buy the DVD from Newegg.