China retaliates to US chip restrictions with export controls on vital tech metals gallium...

[midian182]

What just happened? China has retaliated against US proposals to tighten export restrictions on AI chips by announcing new controls on the export of gallium and germanium, two metals that are vital parts of the semiconductor, telecommunications, and electric vehicle industries.

As reported by Bloomberg, China's Ministry of Commerce said in a statement yesterday (Monday) that as of August 1, the exporters of gallium and germanium, as well as their chemical compounds, would need to apply for licenses from the commerce ministry if they want to start or continue shipping them out of the country. They must also report details of the overseas buyers and what the materials will be used for.

The Ministry of Commerce claims that the move is to "safeguard national security and interests."

China is the world's largest producer of gallium and germanium, producing around 94% of the world's supply of the former metal and 83% of the latter, thanks to the country's cheaper production costs. While they aren't rare or hard to find, China sells them cheaply and they can be expensive to mine.

Gallium

Both metals are used in a wide range of products. Germanium is found in fiber-optic communications, night-vision goggles, space exploration satellites, solar panels, LCD monitor backlighting, and many other items.

Gallium is an important part of the semiconductor industry and is used in wireless communications, phones, LEDs, and more.

"It will be disruptive - germanium and gallium are absolutely critical to high-tech industries," said Anthony Lipmann, a director of London metals trader Lipmann Walton & Co.

China's move does have the potential to backfire if the prices of gallium and germanium rise enough to make it economically viable for other countries to start mining and selling the metals. If that happens, it could impact China's dominance.

"When they stop suppressing the price, it suddenly becomes more viable to extract these metals in the West, then China again has an own-goal," said Christopher Ecclestone, principle at Hallgarten & Co. "For a short while they get a higher price, but then China's market dominance gets lost - the same thing has happened before in other things like antimony, tungsten, and rare earths."

China's move is likely a tit-for-tat response to the US government's sanctions against the country. It was reported last week that the Biden administration could further tighten export controls on AI chips to China, something that Nvidia has warned risks permanent US industry losses. The Dutch government is also restricting sales of ASML's advanced chip-making tools to China at the US' request.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99286-china-retaliates-us-chip-restrictions-export-controls-vital.html

 

[m3tavision]

Good....
Now cheap labor (ie slave labor) will end... while the rest of the World adopts new G&G metal mining strategy. We'd gladly take a 10 year hike in electronics, for the rest of the world to get off CCP hegemony & resources derived from "cheap labor".

win/win for everyone but CCP.

 

[yRaz]

Good....
Now cheap labor (ie slave labor) will end... while the rest of the World adopts new G&G metal mining strategy. We'd gladly take a 10 year hike in electronics, for the rest of the world to get off CCP hegemony & resources derived from "cheap labor".

win/win for everyone but CCP.

oh, we'll just exploit South America instead. Keep in mind, there are still plenty of places in south east Asia and Africa we(the west) can exploit. Mexico actually has a good bit of manufacturing coming to it because of the China sanctions. We also have Venezuela that we're doing a great job of keeping destabilized. People think the middle east is oil capital of the world but Venezuela actually has more oil than most of the middle east combined. Don't forget about Brazil or Chile for rare earths, either.

China showed their true colors(they never stopped, TBH) and now the rest of the world is looking at them thinking, "wait, do we REALLY want to keep making these people wealthy and giving them power?"

They have larger "re-education" camps than the Nazi's had and they aren't really making any secret about their organ harvesting farms. The CCP poses a bigger threat to the world than Nazi Germany and we've been ignoring that for 30 years because we want, what? Cheap products that fall apart after a year or two so we have an excuse to buy new ones?

I'm several tangents deep at this point, but what I'm basically getting at is that the world doesn't need China. They've been acting like this for too long and there are plenty of puppet states the west can use to replace them.

 

[DSirius]

Many months ago I said that US govern shoot itself in the foot, with arbitrarily economic sanctions against China firms only to favor US corporations.
Now US is tasting Karma effect. And it seems that US corporations do not like it at all.
Regardless, these news will be interesting to follow.
Because will cost customers all over the world more money from their pockets.

 

[netman]

"China retaliates to US chip restrictions with export controls on vital tech metals gallium and germanium"

West is facked...!

 

[Porkous]

In my opinion, China is a sleeping giant. The west bought at advantageous prices from them and sold at high prices. This fuel kept going until the one you make bargain deals with can ask for more now because is in a better position to do so.

What is the oil of the world, the commodities? Is not what you have is how you use what you have.

 

[psycros]

Good....
Now cheap labor (ie slave labor) will end... while the rest of the World adopts new G&G metal mining strategy. We'd gladly take a 10 year hike in electronics, for the rest of the world to get off CCP hegemony & resources derived from "cheap labor".

win/win for everyone but CCP.

Honestly, nobody even needed to comment after this mic drop.

 

[WhiteLeaff]

Most of these export restrictions, from all sides, are useless; as some other country works as an intermediary, the product reaches the country targeted by the restrictions, a little more expensive because someone will profit in the process... btw the point is that this effectively nullifies the effects of sanctions

 

[Kashim]

In my opinion, China is a sleeping giant. The west bought at advantageous prices from them and sold at high prices. This fuel kept going until the one you make bargain deals with can ask for more now because is in a better position to do so.

What is the oil of the world, the commodities? Is not what you have is how you use what you have.

Sleeping giant. Please. They can't even produce enough food to feed their massive population.

"Between 2000 and 2020, China's food self-sufficiency ratio decreased from 94% to 66%."

If all the Western countries banded together and sanctioned them by cutting off food imports a third of their population (~450 million) would starve to death. Not to mention the fact that China needs the rest of the world far more than the rest of the world needs China. Ultra cheap (slave) labor and next to no regulations is the only thing they got going for them. If every country pulled out of China and started manufacturing all their electronics, clothing, etc. somewhere else China would have a sky high unemployment rate on their hands and their entire economy would collapse.

While these are all hypothetical and wouldn't be easy to put into practice, the idea that China is some kind of sleeping giant that we should appease is asinine. Did the West take advantage of the cheap labor? Absolutely. But China benefited just as much. They did not become the second richest nation in the world by accident. Let's not forget that there are plenty of other places with cheap labor, like India for example. So this idea that China can ask for more is nonsense. Let's wait and see how hard they're willing to push back against the West before they have their little economic bubble burst.

 

[BlindOneArmGuy]

Sleeping giant. Please. They can't even produce enough food to feed their massive population.

"Between 2000 and 2020, China's food self-sufficiency ratio decreased from 94% to 66%."

If all the Western countries banded together and sanctioned them by cutting off food imports, a third of their population (~450 million) would starve to death. Not to mention the fact that China needs the rest of the world far more than the rest of the world needs China. Ultra cheap (slave) labor and next to no regulations is the only thing they got going for them. If every country pulled out of China and started manufacturing all their electronics, clothing, etc. somewhere else China would have a sky high unemployment rate on their hands and their entire economy would collapse.

While these are all hypothetical and wouldn't be easy to put into practice, the idea that China is some kind of sleeping giant that we should appease is asinine. Did the West take advantage of the cheap labor? Absolutely. But China benefited just as much. They did not become the second richest nation in the world by accident. Let's not forget that there are plenty of other places with cheap labor, like India for example. So this idea that China can ask for more is nonsense. Let's wait and see how hard they're willing to push back against the West before they have their little economic bubble burst.

That's because importing food is cheaper not because they can't

 

[Lounds]

Good....
Now cheap labor (ie slave labor) will end... while the rest of the World adopts new G&G metal mining strategy. We'd gladly take a 10 year hike in electronics, for the rest of the world to get off CCP hegemony & resources derived from "cheap labor".

win/win for everyone but CCP.

And watch the world economy implode. Every big busy is reliant on China.

 

[Sleuth]

What just happened? China has retaliated against US proposals to tighten export restrictions on AI chips by announcing new controls on the export of gallium and germanium, two metals that are vital parts of the semiconductor, telecommunications, and electric vehicles industries.

As reported by Bloomberg, China's Ministry of Commerce said in a statement yesterday (Monday) that as of August 1, the exporters of gallium and germanium, as well as their chemical compounds, would need to apply for licenses from the commerce ministry if they want to start or continue shipping them out of the country. They must also report details of the overseas buyers and what the materials will be used for.

The Ministry of Commerce claims that the move is to "safeguard national security and interests."

China is the world's largest producer of gallium and germanium, producing around 94% of the world's supply of the former metal and 83% of the latter, thanks to the country's cheaper production costs. While they aren't rare or hard to find, China sells them cheaply and they can be expensive to mine.

Gallium

Both metals are used in a wide range of products. Germanium is found in fiber-optic communications, night-vision goggles, space exploration satellites, solar panels, LCD monitor backlighting, and many other items.

Gallium is an important part of the semiconductor industry and is used in wireless communications, phones, LEDs, and more.

"It will be disruptive - germanium and gallium are absolutely critical to high-tech industries," said Anthony Lipmann, a director of London metals trader Lipmann Walton & Co.

China's move does have the potential to backfire if the prices of gallium and germanium rise enough to make it economically viable for other countries to start mining and selling the metals. If that happens, it could impact China's dominance.

"When they stop suppressing the price, it suddenly becomes more viable to extract these metals in the West, then China again has an own-goal," said Christopher Ecclestone, principle at Hallgarten & Co. "For a short while they get a higher price, but then China's market dominance gets lost - the same thing has happened before in other things like antimony, tungsten, and rare earths."

China's move is likely a tit-for-tat response to the US government's sanctions against the country. It was reported last week that the Biden administration could further tighten export controls on AI chips to China, something that Nvidia has warned risks permanent US industry losses. The Dutch government is also restricting sales of ASML's advanced chip-making tools to China at the US' request.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/99286-china-retaliates-us-chip-restrictions-export-controls-vital.html

Some basic research gives a surprise, Australia has those 2 rare metals. The amounts are not disclosed but could be in sufficient quantity to make it worth China to invade Australia when theirs run out. The USA has many mining company's here and would find it economically viable to mine for itself. So maybe the west can beat China at its own game.! Make it conditional to buying Australian beef, coal and wheat, to also buy those 2 minerals at inflated prices. Win win. The USA could do the same ! Win Win again.

 

[kiwigraeme]

China is in default on a trillion dollars in debt to US bondholders at the moment - this is all just the usual power plays

 

[dangh]

oh, we'll just exploit South America instead.

China is already doing that, and they are much more advanced there so west most probably won't.
And if they will try to do it, China will offer better options, they are already pushing into south america.

 

[Aranarth]

Sleeping giant. Please. They can't even produce enough food to feed their massive population.

"Between 2000 and 2020, China's food self-sufficiency ratio decreased from 94% to 66%."

If all the Western countries banded together and sanctioned them by cutting off food imports a third of their population (~450 million) would starve to death. Not to mention the fact that China needs the rest of the world far more than the rest of the world needs China. Ultra cheap (slave) labor and next to no regulations is the only thing they got going for them. If every country pulled out of China and started manufacturing all their electronics, clothing, etc. somewhere else China would have a sky high unemployment rate on their hands and their entire economy would collapse.

While these are all hypothetical and wouldn't be easy to put into practice, the idea that China is some kind of sleeping giant that we should appease is asinine. Did the West take advantage of the cheap labor? Absolutely. But China benefited just as much. They did not become the second richest nation in the world by accident. Let's not forget that there are plenty of other places with cheap labor, like India for example. So this idea that China can ask for more is nonsense. Let's wait and see how hard they're willing to push back against the West before they have their little economic bubble burst.

And to add, they are in serious trouble because they kept the "one child per family" policy for too long.
They are are aging out and they are expected to loose 1/2 their population in the next 40 years.
They aren't going to have enough young people to continue their cheap labor rates etc.

India is going to be the next power house in the region.

 

[wiyosaya]

Some basic research gives a surprise, Australia has those 2 rare metals. The amounts are not disclosed but could be in sufficient quantity to make it worth China to invade Australia when theirs run out. The USA has many mining company's here and would find it economically viable to mine for itself. So maybe the west can beat China at its own game.! Make it conditional to buying Australian beef, coal and wheat, to also buy those 2 minerals at inflated prices. Win win. The USA could do the same ! Win Win again.

Yes, that's the point of the sub-title: Maybe China just shot itself in the foot. The article says that other countries have these elements, too, however, everyone opted to get them from China because of, wait for it, cheap labor costs.

It took the world long enough, but the world is finally waking up to the real costs of getting everything from China. Personally, I think it is about f'ing time with all the pure crap that comes from mainland China.

The US has Gallium - https://www.usgs.gov/news/technical...neral-database-gallium-deposits-united-states
And the US also has Germanium https://www.usgs.gov/data/germanium-deposits-united-states#:~:text=This data release provides data for the single,byproduct from deposits in Alaska, Washington, and Tennessee.
And its about time we on-shore mining of these materials for our strategic needs instead of relying on what is proving to be a hostile country for those needs.

The ironic thing about this is that very much the same thing happened between the US and Japan prior to WWII. The US failed to learn that lesson, and now WE, the US, are learning it all over again. It just goes to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that politicians and big business are not as smart as they think. IMO, its about time that a US administration came to its senses. If there is only thing that the current US administration has gotten right, its this one in the biggest possible way, IMO.

 

[m3tavision]

And watch the world economy implode. Every big busy is reliant on China.

You mean watch CCP implode...!

It's economic doom for them and CCP is trying hard right now (last decade) to buy friendship with 3rd world nations, bcz they are fully aware the "World's Economy" is going to revolt against China's "cheap labor" (ie slave labor) and tech-stealing antics.

China has not opened up & instead it's gone further into isolation from the rest of the World. As such, Others Countries & Citizens can't own or buy land in China, so it is rather easy for the rest of the world to walk away from and close down China...

Leaving the CCP & the Chinese Citizen to work it out... & that is when the Revolution starts

 

[wiyosaya]

You mean watch CCP implode...!

It's economic doom for them and CCP is trying hard right now (last decade) to buy friendship with 3rd world nations, bcz they are fully aware the "World's Economy" is going to revolt against China's "cheap labor" (ie slave labor) and tech-stealing antics.

China has not opened up & instead it's gone further into isolation from the rest of the World. As such, Others Countries & Citizens can't own or buy land in China, so it is rather easy for the rest of the world to walk away from and close down China...

Leaving the CCP & the Chinese Citizen to work it out... & that is when the Revolution starts

I think you are right on the mark with your comments. China's economy is already tanking. Let's see just how far their economy will further tank with this. No one needs their crap products just because they are cheap.

 

[yRaz]

The ironic thing about this is that very much the same thing happened between the US and Japan prior to WWII. The US failed to learn that lesson, and now WE, the US, are learning it all over again. It just goes to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that politicians and big business are not as smart as they think. IMO, its about time that a US administration came to its senses. If there is only thing that the current US administration has gotten right, its this one in the biggest possible way, IMO.

The US didn't fail to learn it's lesson, greed took over in the early 80's and capitalism doesn't care. The US Government has been well aware of the threat that the CCP poses the entire time, it's a large part of why we have such a strong presence in the Pacific. Business lobbied for us to do business in China because it was cheaper but we needed to have a strong Military presence to protect those business interests. Frankly, people talk about how "cheap" stuff in China is, no one considers the cost of military operations to secure production in the cost of said products.

 

[kinetix]

Damn, how much delusional (and phobics) here.

those who mention the "rest of the world"... most of the world, more than 2/3 of the population and countries, in one way or another are leaning more towards the "east", towards Asia. Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East and much of Asia lean towards China and Russia. even outside of those, a part of the population also does it

Just saying "rest of the world" already shows an intrinsic level of arrogance, racism, discrimination of many kinds. the same as those who say "the whole world" when they refer to that 1/3-1/4 of the planet.

That "rest of the world" knows the other "rest" too well, they have had to suffer them for decades and even centuries, and some still suffer. For a few years now they have taken their position and attitude, they have historical, current, and future reasons for it. this last year only showed them and demonstrated in all light the extreme levels of arrogance, hypocrisy and cynicism of that other "rest".

Just looking at the economics and trade, many countries are reducing and even eliminating the dollar in their economies and trade transactions, and they already looking the euro with the same intention. commercial, economic, financial systems, and even military ones are increasing their reach and capacity outside of this little group that calls itself "the West". both BRICS and SCO are wronging faster than anything.

Those with such short sights, with knowledge only of their immediate environment, and the current width of their wallet (many times fictitious width) do not see or prefer not to see how the planet has been changing at an accelerated rate in the last decade and even more so in the last two or three years.

really, realism is conspicuous by its absence around here. It even seems that some have a vein line right from the British Bullshit Corporation...

 

[yRaz]

China is already doing that, and they are much more advanced there so west most probably won't.
And if they will try to do it, China will offer better options, they are already pushing into south america.

Actually, China's belt and road initiative is falling apart. A large part of China's B&R was that if the countries failed to pay back the loans that the infrastructure that they paid for would become property of China. What ended up happening was corruption in the countries that China lent money to lead to the money being stolen and the infrastructure was never built. China has lost literally trillions of dollars on the belt and road. This is one of the advantages of the continued US destabilization of foreign nations, it makes it basically impossible for other nations to come in and exploit them. The US does a lot of really sh*tty things but their long game is on point.

Damn, how much delusional (and phobics) here.

those who mention the "rest of the world"... most of the world, more than 2/3 of the population and countries, in one way or another are leaning more towards the "east", towards Asia. Africa, Central and South America, the Middle East and much of Asia lean towards China and Russia. even outside of those, a part of the population also does it

Just saying "rest of the world" already shows an intrinsic level of arrogance, racism, discrimination of many kinds.

That "rest of the world" knows the other "rest" too well, they have had to suffer them for decades and even centuries, and some still suffer. For a few years now they have taken their position and attitude, they have historical, current, and future reasons for it. this last year only showed them and demonstrated in all light the extreme levels of arrogance, hypocrisy and cynicism of that other "rest".

Just looking at the economics and trade, many countries are reducing and even eliminating the dollar in their economies and trade transactions, and they already look at the euro with the same desire. commercial, economic, financial systems, and even the military are increasing their reach and capacity outside of this little group that calls itself "the West". both BRICS and SCO are wronging faster than anything.

Those with such short sights, with knowledge only of their immediate environment, and of the current width of their wallet (many times fictitious width) do not see or prefer not to see how the planet has been changing at an accelerated rate in the last decade and even more so in the last two or three years.

really, realism is conspicuous by its absence around here. It even seems that some have a vein line from the British Bullshit Corporation...

I was very careful to say "the west" in my posts. It's funny that you called us arrogant, racist, hypocrites and cynics but you never called any of us liars.

 

[kinetix]

Actually, China's belt and road initiative is falling apart. A large part of China's B&R was that if the countries failed to pay back the loans that the infrastructure that they paid for would become property of China. What ended up happening was corruption in the countries that China lent money to lead to the money being stolen and the infrastructure was never built. China has lost literally trillions of dollars on the belt and road. This is one of the advantages of the continued US destabilization of foreign nations, it makes it basically impossible for other nations to come in and exploit them. The US does a lot of really sh*tty things but their long game is on point.

I was very careful to say "the west" in my posts. It's funny that you called us arrogant, racist, hypocrites and cynics but you never called any of us liars.

ooh! Thanks for reminding me.
Yes, I also forgot to say liars. And from there comes a good part of the hypocrisy and cynicism.
That is one of the most important things, too much of it I have seen in my life.

 

[yRaz]

ooh! Thanks for reminding me.
Yes, I also forgot to say liars. And from there comes a good part of the hypocrisy and cynicism.
That is one of the most important things, too much of it I have seen in my life.

well now that you accused of being liars instead of just name calling you actually have point out where we lied. Otherwise, we can just add liar to the "name calling" list.

 

[wiyosaya]

The US didn't fail to learn it's lesson, greed took over in the early 80's and capitalism doesn't care. The US Government has been well aware of the threat that the CCP poses the entire time, it's a large part of why we have such a strong presence in the Pacific. Business lobbied for us to do business in China because it was cheaper but we needed to have a strong Military presence to protect those business interests. Frankly, people talk about how "cheap" stuff in China is, no one considers the cost of military operations to secure production in the cost of said products.

Perhaps you should take a look at this perspective - https://www.thoughtco.com/the-us-and-japan-before-world-war-ii-3310162 You might note the parallels between current US - China relations and US - Japanese relations then. Much like what has happened in current times with China, US supplied resources enabled Japan to build up their military and start wars with the Chinese, and then eventually, the US.

The history of the Chinese military has not been completely written yet, but if this link is reliable, it started its modernization in 1979 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army I go so far as arguing that Nixon's normalization of relations with China, and the resulting trade, literally handed China the resources, monetary and/or otherwise, to modernize its military into the force it is today, and that is my argument that the US did not learn its lesson, and in fact, it is still learning it.

Greed has been a factor literally since humanity developed on Earth and has been a prime driver of power grabs throughout humanity's history. In fact, my opinion is that greed is the prime driver for the problems the world has today, not only in the US, but literally everywhere.

The US military presence may or may not be a good thing. In the long run, if it should come to war, which may escalate into Nuclear war, the entire world will, once again, pay the price for the greed of the few.

These current actions by the US in limiting trade with China, as I see them, are much needed; however, they may only exasperate China even more than it is now - which may lead China to think that the only course of action that it can take is a military one. If such action were to take place, I think that the entire world will suffer. Whether such a war happens is an uncertainty at this point, but with China wanting dominance in the Asian Pacific, it may come down to whether or not China thinks its interests in the area, and the world, are substantially threatened to the point where China thinks it has no other options.

China has had a golden spoon placed in its mouth since the early 1970s at least. They may not be so willing to give up that spoon.

 

[wiyosaya]

ooh! Thanks for reminding me.
Yes, I also forgot to say liars. And from there comes a good part of the hypocrisy and cynicism.
That is one of the most important things, too much of it I have seen in my life.

Perhaps you should look in the mirror, my friend. There's a big difference between calling a duck a duck and calling a duck a penguin.