Dutch defense chief claims F-35 could be "jailbroken like an iPhone" to bypass US approval

midian182

Posts: 11,624   +176
Staff member
WTF?! Could the EU make software changes to Lockheed Martin's F-35 without the United States' approval? Dutch Secretary of Defense Gijs Tuinman thinks so. He believes the fighter aircraft can be jailbroken "just like an iPhone," though nobody seems to agree with him.

In an interview with NR Nieuwsradio, Tuinman was asked if the F-35's software could be altered by European forces without the United States' consent should they lose the US as an ally – a prospect that has been repeatedly raised as tensions between the continent and President Trump continue to rise.

"The F-35 is truly a shared product," Tuinman said (translated from Dutch) via Clash Report. "The British make the Rolls-Royce engines, and the Americans simply need them too. And even if this mutual dependency doesn't result in software updates, the F-35, in its current state, is still a better aircraft than other types of fighters."

"I'm going to say something I should never say, but I'll do it anyway," the defense secretary continued. "Just like your iPhone, you can jailbreak an F-35. I won't say more about it."

There have been rumors that the US may have included a secret kill switch in the F-35 that could allow the United States to disable the jets with a single command. That has since been dismissed as fiction, but overseas militaries still rely on US-managed updates to keep the jet at optimal effectiveness.

It goes without saying that jailbreaking an F-35, which costs between $82.5 million and $102.1 million depending on the model, does not compare to breaking into an iPhone.

One of the biggest issues is that unlike Apple's incredibly popular handset, a private individual cannot buy an F-35 – it is sold only to national governments through the US government's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. Ken Munro, of Pen Test Partners, told The Reg that this means the research community cannot access the jet, so security vulnerabilities are very unlikely to become public.

Munro also pointed out that there is a commercial motivation to discover jailbreaks on consumer devices like iPhones. Moreover, the F-35's source code is said to exceed 8 million lines, and it's obviously encrypted. Even if jailbreaking were possible, it would likely put an end to future upgrades for foreign militaries.

Concerns about EU operational sovereignty are not new. European governments have increasingly discussed reducing dependence on foreign defense technology, investing in domestic alternatives, and strengthening joint procurement programs.

It's not just military hardware where Europe wants to lessen reliance on the US. In January, the European Parliament passed a resolution urging member states to narrow their dependence on non-EU suppliers for technologies ranging from semiconductors to artificial intelligence and cloud hosting. France's public sector has already said it is phasing out US-made video-conferencing platforms such as Zoom and Teams, replacing them with a state-built system designed to keep data inside Europe's borders.

Permalink to story:

 
Well, as the proverb says, You build a brand for decades, destroy It in a year of poor presidency, or something like that.

May I just say that that highly integrated system was a failure from the begining? That's how Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum defeated aliens 30 years ago.
 
Whether the jailbreak is actually do-able remains to be seen.
But that doesn't matter.
The Mango King likely blew his top over this when he heard it hahaha priceless.
 
I heard Israel’s F35s run Israeli software from day one
Hilarious. You heard it from where exactly? My guess is the shadiest corner of the internet or maybe it was a mental patient walking by who whispered it in your ear.
 
Last edited:
I heard Israel’s F35s run Israeli software from day one
Yep, because US would not want all NATO fleet grounded when one of Israeli F35 gets accidently downed by Iran during bombing of Their nuclear systems, and Allah forbid, with a computer intact.
Plus, Israeli's are kinda not fair partner, for example when It comes to spying on Their own allies.
 
Hilarious. You heard it from where exactly? My guess is the shady corner of the internet or maybe it was a mental patient walking by who whispered it in your ear.
It's a known fact. Israel is the only country that currently doesn't run the default F35 software but their own. This reduces the effectiveness of the jet but the US dependance as well.
You can find many articles on it like this one
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulid...fighter-monopoly-in-middle-east-may-soon-end/

Kinda ironic with how Israël is glazing the US lately that they're the only one who doesn't trust their software. I would say that Europe should follow... But they should just double down on their Gen6 design and cancel all f35 (gen5) orders
 
It's a known fact. Israel is the only country that currently doesn't run the default F35 software but their own. This reduces the effectiveness of the jet but the US dependance as well.
You can find many articles on it like this one
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulid...fighter-monopoly-in-middle-east-may-soon-end/

Kinda ironic with how Israël is glazing the US lately that they're the only one who doesn't trust their software. I would say that Europe should follow... But they should just double down on their Gen6 design and cancel all f35 (gen5) orders
That would require the EU to actually build something, and by the time the bureaucracy gets off their bloated arses and actually allows the factory to be built, Their "gen 6" fighter will be 20 years out of date.

They are STILL arguing about where to build the artillery factory to make rounds for Ukraine, 4 years after promising to supply them.

That's why they depend on our defenses in the first place.
Well, as the proverb says, You build a brand for decades, destroy It in a year of poor presidency, or something like that.

May I just say that that highly integrated system was a failure from the begining? That's how Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum defeated aliens 30 years ago.
Those same highly integrated systems also allow a F-35 to direct a missile strike on a target hundreds of miles away, launched from a ship 1000 miles away, all without the target having any idea they are being targeted in the first place.

The F-35 fusion system is legitimately terrifying in its capability. Or course Russia hasnt gotten the memo, showing off their fancy dogfighting moves with their SU-37, not realizing that dogfighting went the way of the dodo, at bare minimum, 45 years ago.

Of course, if the EU is that upset over one president, then they are welcome to kick us out of NATO. I'd love to see that, those trillions of $$$ would be better spent on internal infrastructure, paying off debts, or building up relationships in Asian spheres of influence instead. Kick us out of the G6 while they're at it, so we dont have to cripple our economy chasing their insane climate demands.
 
DUH...it's been going on a LOT longer than you think.
I remember in the 1979 "Iranian revolution", there were "rumors" that before Grumman
advisors pulled out, they somehow disabled the fire control "computer" on the F-14's
that Iran had. Oh, they got them going again, but you can bet there is "kill" software built
into every military hardware sold to anyone outside the U.S., regardless if they are an allie
or not.
Heck, if push came to shove, you don't think they would pop an EMP anyway?
 
Having worked on similar systems, every critical system of the aircraft has a tamper resistant system protecting it. Even attempting compromise any system will turn it into a giant paperweight. The protection are military grade which are substantially more robust and redundant than any iPhone.
 
Having worked on similar systems, every critical system of the aircraft has a tamper resistant system protecting it. Even attempting compromise any system will turn it into a giant paperweight. The protection are military grade which are substantially more robust and redundant than any iPhone.
Which of course is not true, for several reasons.

1. Military technology is generally lagging behind vs civilian technology by a decade, if not more. (Of course there are exceptions, but that's generally not control software or protection mechanisms, but material science stuff and such, and even that is just the exception proving the rule.) This also means less processing power, allowing less strong encryption, but also less modern encryption technologies or other software defenses.

2. Military technology is not exposed to the same level and amount of scrunity of security researchers as are most critical civilian technologies. (Of course, again, there would be interest in this, but the access controls around military technologies obviously make it harder to do that.) Which in turn means that there are a lot more likely security vulnerabilities or design weaknesses inn them (and _a lot_ of those) that have not yet been discovered, let alone addressed. Any of these could possibbly allow jailbreaking and/or overcoming any access control defenses.

3. Addressing even discovered weaknesses and vulnerabilities are a lot harder if not impossible if you don't have the product in your posession anymore. Like if it would turn out that there's a hw design or implementation issue in the possible lockdown mechanism in the F-35s that have been already sold to other countries, you'll not be able to just close that down. You can possibly do that with your own jets, but not in those you have no full control over anymore. At least not without risking exposing yourself and going openly against the interests of those other countries.
 
I sometimes wonder about software developed in the U.S. Perhaps export goods with software are purposely developed a certain way that if the F-35 is jailbroken something else will happen.

If hackers can exploit malware without the user knowing, I can only imagine what the DOD and DARPA has.
 
Breaking the software is all well and good but how do they plan to keep them flying when the US cuts off the supply of spare parts?

You dont need 'kill switches' to make F35s non operational, just non existent spares. These things are so maintenance heavy that most F35s would be grounded after a week of combat operations and cannabilising other aircraft for such spares is only going to keep your (ever decreasing) planes flying for so long.
 
.....
Those same highly integrated systems also allow a F-35 to direct a missile strike on a target hundreds of miles away, launched from a ship 1000 miles away, all without the target having any idea they are being targeted in the first place.

The F-35 fusion system is legitimately terrifying in its capability. Or course Russia hasnt gotten the memo, showing off their fancy dogfighting moves with their SU-37, not realizing that dogfighting went the way of the dodo, at bare minimum, 45 years ago.

Well... Russian aircraft also direct Naval missile strikes on targets hundreds of miles away. What do you think guides Russian missile strikes into Ukraine? A headless chicken?

Maneuverability is important for missile evasion, not dogfighting. Russia's SU-37 was an experimental testbed to see how far maneuverability could be taken. They only built one, back in 1996. The results were incorporated into later production fighters like the SU-34 and SU-57.

US aircraft are designed primarily for offensive strike roles against enemy ground installations. Hence the focus on stealth and the ability to get in and out quickly before being engaged by the enemy.

Russia focuses on defense. They don't generally risk jets for long range tactical strike missions, leaving that to missiles like the Oreshnik and Iskander. The SU-57 is specifically designed for air-air combat against incoming strike fighters. Ultra-Tankey. Think League of Legends Trundle. The SU-57 carries more anti-air armament than the F-35. It has extensive side mounted radars not found on US jets. It is faster and more maneuverable. Russian jets are heavily networked with ground radar and SAM systems.

An F-35 is like an archer with a longbow. A SU-57 is an armored knight on a horse. Once the F-35 shoots its wad, it's gonna run like hell. "Please feet, don't fail me now!!!"

The question of which nation designs the better aircraft depends on their role. For strike aircraft, buy American. For a defensive landwar, Russian aircraft are probably better.
 
I heard Israel’s F35s run Israeli software from day one

Israel is facing a bunch of people with Kalashnikov rifle. They don't even have portable anti-aircraft systems.
Give them at least a dozen Stingers, and then you'll be able to say something.
 
[QUOTE="Axeia, post: 2184982, member: 407178"
Kinda ironic with how Israël is glazing the US lately that they're the only one who doesn't trust their software. I would say that Europe should follow... But they should just double down on their Gen6 design and cancel all f35 (gen5) orders
[/QUOTE]

"Israël"

Where'd you come up with that? There's no diaresis/umlaut over the e in Israel.
 
That would require the EU to actually build something, and by the time the bureaucracy gets off their bloated arses and actually allows the factory to be built, Their "gen 6" fighter will be 20 years out of date.

They are STILL arguing about where to build the artillery factory to make rounds for Ukraine, 4 years after promising to supply them.

That's why they depend on our defenses in the first place.

Those same highly integrated systems also allow a F-35 to direct a missile strike on a target hundreds of miles away, launched from a ship 1000 miles away, all without the target having any idea they are being targeted in the first place.

The F-35 fusion system is legitimately terrifying in its capability. Or course Russia hasnt gotten the memo, showing off their fancy dogfighting moves with their SU-37, not realizing that dogfighting went the way of the dodo, at bare minimum, 45 years ago.

Of course, if the EU is that upset over one president, then they are welcome to kick us out of NATO. I'd love to see that, those trillions of $$$ would be better spent on internal infrastructure, paying off debts, or building up relationships in Asian spheres of influence instead. Kick us out of the G6 while they're at it, so we dont have to cripple our economy chasing their insane climate demands.
All it takes is one president to ruin decades of reputation. The moment Trump suggested the F35 could be turned off remotely, europe woke up. We are witnessing a historical rift about to split the western world in half. It is now clear that no matter who the next potus is, we cant trust them. Trump could happen again, and US is looong way from proving the rest of us otherwise.
 
Back