Elon Musk disabled Starlink during Ukraine attack on Russian ships over fears of nuclear...

midian182

midian182

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In a nutshell: Elon Musk turned off Starlink to foil a Ukrainian drone attack on the Russian naval fleet in Crimea last year over fears that Vladimir Putin would retaliate with a nuclear strike, according to a new biography.

In an excerpt of Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson, CNN quotes a section claiming Musk secretly ordered Starlink engineers to turn off satellite communications near the Crimean coast in 2022 as Ukrainian submarine drones approached the Russian naval fleet for a surprise attack.

Isaacson writes that as the drones neared the vessels, they "lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly." Ukrainian officials reportedly begged Musk via text to turn the service back on. They told the CEO about the submarine drones' capabilities, and while Musk said he was impressed by the design, he wouldn't turn coverage back on for Crimea.

Mykhailo Fedorov, a deputy prime minister of Ukraine, was one of those begging Musk to restore coverage. "I just want you – the person who is changing the world through technology – to know this," Fedorov told Musk.

It's claimed that the reason behind Musk's decision was a fear that Russia would respond to the attack with the use of nuclear weapons, which stemmed from the billionaire's conversations with senior Russian officials.

Musk reportedly said that Ukraine was "going too far" in threatening a "strategic defeat" on Putin's forces, referring to the drone attack as a "mini Pearl Harbor."

CNN writes that as the situation continued, Musk was "soon on the phone with President Joe Biden's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, the chairman of the joint chiefs, Gen. Mark Milley, and the Russian ambassador to the US to address anxieties from Washington, DC, to Moscow."

"How am I in this war?" Musk asked Isaacson. "Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes."

It's been a rocky road for Starlink in Ukraine. SpaceX has supplied over 25,000 terminals to the country and maintained them since the war began, helping keep the nation's critical infrastructure and its citizens online as Russia continues its assault. This has led to Russia's threat that the satellites could become a legitimate target. Former Russian space chief Dmitry Rogozin also made a veiled threat against the Tesla boss' life.

Musk warned in October that with Starlink donations to Ukraine exceeding $100 million, his company could not foot the bill forever, suggesting that the Pentagon should help with costs. But he did a U-turn days later, confirming SpaceX would fund Starlink in Ukraine "indefinitely."

Relations became frostier in February when SpaceX limited Ukraine's ability to use the Starlink satellite service for offensive military purposes.

Claims that Musk stopped an attack on Russian military equipment are unlikely to go down well in Ukraine, which was particularly angry about the world's richest man's "peace plan" last year. He suggested a redo of the sham elections that took place in occupied areas of Ukraine that led to Putin authorizing their annexation, but this time they are performed under UN supervision, and Russia must leave if it is the will of the people.

Musk did once offer to fight Putin in single combat for the future of Ukraine, but that seems about as likely as Musk fighting Mark Zuckerberg.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/100079-elon-musk-disabled-starlink-during-ukraine-attack-russia.html

 
Look I'm not getting back here to discuss individually with each Musk sycophant so don't expect conversation, but it is pretty clear that there is only one way to classify what he did: treason.

Now I do not support the penalty for being found guilty of treason however I do support some consequences to prevent him from this kind of interference again, mainly having 100% of his wealth and assets taken away from him and being barred from public ownership of companies or participating in politics directly or indirectly in the future. You know, actually useful sentencing vs punitive BS that will accomplish nothing.
 
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Treason is unfortunately only applicable by the affected nation (USA) during war time BUT ..... he has clearly given aid and comfort to the enemy of Ukraine and they should file formal requests to the USA for an extradition of Musk to stand trial in their country. Based upon these findings there is no reason that the US can't strip him of his business licenses for "X" and for StarLink and, depending upon which court hears the case, seizure of all his assets in order to protect the US's interests .....
 
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It's not treason. As Musk himself said: "How am I in this war"?

Musk does not report to the President of the U.S. or anyone else in the military chain of command or DOD. Starlink is a civilian company. If it decided to shut down tomorrow, that's too bad for Ukraine and Starlink's users, but it wouldn't be illegal or treasonous to do so.

Frankly, the U.S. military should be responsible for taking charge of the capabilities offered to Ukraine through this service, either by having their own constellation or contracting/purchasing Starlink satellites.

In other words: the President and DOD should be in charge of decisions of international relations, military capabilities, and nuclear threat assessment: not Elon Musk. I can blame Elon for a lot of things, but being put into this difficult predicament isn't his fault.

As long as Elon Musk has the power to make these decisions, he has responsibility over them. To do what he feels is right is commendable. The U.S. government allowing such critical decisions to be made outside of the proper authorities is the government's fault.
 
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human7 said:
It's not treason. As Musk himself said: "How am I in this war"?

Musk does not report to the President of the U.S. or anyone else in the military chain of command or DOD.
Click to expand...
That has nothing to do with the definition of treason. Nor does being in a war or not.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/treason

Civilians are capable of committing treason even in times of peace.

human7 said:
Starlink is a civilian company. If it decided to shut down tomorrow, that's too bad for Ukraine and Starlink's users, but it wouldn't be illegal or treasonous to do so.

Frankly, the U.S. military should be responsible for taking charge of the capabilities offered to Ukraine through this service, either by having their own constellation or contracting/purchasing Starlink satellites.

In other words: the President and DOD should be in charge of decisions of international relations, military capabilities, and nuclear threat assessment: not Elon Musk. I can blame Elon for a lot of things, but being put into this difficult predicament isn't his fault.

As long as Elon Musk has the power to make these decisions, he has responsibility over them. To do what he feels is right is commendable. The U.S. government allowing such critical decisions to be made outside of the proper authorities is the government's fault.
Click to expand...
I agree that the US or some other country's military should implement the function of Starlink in some manner.

However, Musk is not a statesman, he does not speak for the US or any other country in any fashion.

People always use technology in a way that the inventor or provider of that technology never thought they would.

IMO, Musk way overstepped his bounds with this decision. He played God. Just because Musk thinks he did the right thing, does not mean he did do the right thing. Give Musk the chance to play God, and I guarantee you, his ego will not pass it up.

IMO, Musk simply proved that Putin's/Russia's propaganda about the situation was effective in evoking the fear in him that Putin/Russia wanted it to evoke so that those succumbing to that fear would do exactly what Russia/Putin wanted. To me, it sounds like Russia's/Putin's threats of nuclear war scared the crap out of Musk and he thought that providing Starlink services would somehow provoke the Russian's/Putin to "Go Nuclear." We've not heard these threats in some time - obviously, they were a bluff that had the intended effect - on Musk, at least. The Russian's / Putin are not stupid despite how they appear to some. They know the capabilities of Nuclear weapons, and they know that for them to go Nuclear would likely mean the end of their civilization as well as the rest of civilization on Earth.

Besides, why are we talking about treason - it was not mentioned in the article even once.
 
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Uncle Al said:
Treason is unfortunately only applicable by the affected nation (USA) during war time BUT ..... he has clearly given aid and comfort to the enemy of Ukraine and they should file formal requests to the USA for an extradition of Musk to stand trial in their country. Based upon these findings there is no reason that the US can't strip him of his business licenses for "X" and for StarLink and, depending upon which court hears the case, seizure of all his assets in order to protect the US's interests .....
Click to expand...
You're only seeing this as 'The enemy of Ukraine' but the case can (And in the past, has been) easily made that aiding an enemy of the US, Russia, would certainly count as treason. The entirety of the McCarthian persecution was based on aiding and abetting the USSR And that was largely without a direct declaration of war from the US to the USSR.

Look to be extra clear, I would advocate against making such case and going back to the red panic days (Not that we're too far away from that if you listen to the rhetoric from certain former president currently facing numerous indictments) But people were heavily persecuted for a hell of a lot less than what Musk did here and both the word and charge 'Treason' was on the table whenever or not it was technically legally viable to be so.

Ever since the war on drugs, the war on crime and the war on terror there's been no due process to speak of, not considering Musk a traitor to the US is only about one thing and one thing only: He makes a lot of money for a lot of people in the US so there's no chance of that happening just because of the status and not because of the severity of his actions.
 
I love how people are trying to make Musk the bad guy when he is the one that lets them use Starlink for defensive purposes for freaking free. So essentially Musk might have saved Ukraine because it allowed their military to keep communications open. I swear people dont know how to think logically anymore, just a bunch of morons
 
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wiyosaya said:
That has nothing to do with the definition of treason. Nor does being in a war or not.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/treason

Civilians are capable of committing treason even in times of peace.


I agree that the US or some other country's military should implement the function of Starlink in some manner.

However, Musk is not a statesman, he does not speak for the US or any other country in any fashion.

People always use technology in a way that the inventor or provider of that technology never thought they would.

IMO, Musk way overstepped his bounds with this decision. He played God. Just because Musk thinks he did the right thing, does not mean he did do the right thing. Give Musk the chance to play God, and I guarantee you, his ego will not pass it up.

IMO, Musk simply proved that Putin's/Russia's propaganda about the situation was effective in evoking the fear in him that Putin/Russia wanted it to evoke so that those succumbing to that fear would do exactly what Russia/Putin wanted. To me, it sounds like Russia's/Putin's threats of nuclear war scared the crap out of Musk and he thought that providing Starlink services would somehow provoke the Russian's/Putin to "Go Nuclear." We've not heard these threats in some time - obviously, they were a bluff that had the intended effect - on Musk, at least. The Russian's / Putin are not stupid despite how they appear to some. They know the capabilities of Nuclear weapons, and they know that for them to go Nuclear would likely mean the end of their civilization as well as the rest of civilization on Earth.

Besides, why are we talking about treason - it was not mentioned in the article even once.
Click to expand...


Musk did not play god. He made a rule that Starlink is to be used for defensive purposes only. Its not his fault The Ukrainians tried to use it for offensive purpose when they knew the rules.
 
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Dimitriid said:
Look I'm not getting back here to discuss individually with each Musk sycophant so don't expect conversation, but it is pretty clear that there is only one way to classify what he did: treason.

Now I do not support the penalty for being found guilty of treason however I do support some consequences to prevent him from this kind of interference again, mainly having 100% of his wealth and assets taken away from him and being barred from public ownership of companies or participating in politics directly or indirectly in the future. You know, actually useful sentencing vs punitive BS that will accomplish nothing.
Click to expand...

How the hell is that treason? You know he didnt have to let Ukraine use Starlink at all let alone for free for a while. His rules were use it for defensive purposes. Ukraine tried to use it for offensive. They broke the rules. This isnt hard if you actually use your brain for a second
 
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hover389 said:
Musk did not play god. He made a rule that Starlink is to be used for defensive purposes only. Its not his fault The Ukrainians tried to use it for offensive purpose when they knew the rules.
Click to expand...
How is eliminating offensive assets of your enemy not a defensive move?
 
wiyosaya said:
Besides, why are we talking about treason - it was not mentioned in the article even once.
Click to expand...
Because @Dimitriid decided to bring it up.

That said, until Musk is convicted in court, he isn't guilty of treason, so it's a moot point. If Elon did step outside of his bounds, again, it's not Elon's fault unless there was clear contractual language between Starlink and the U.S. government over its roles and responsibilities in Ukraine. If there were no such formal agreements, holding Elon accountable for decisions the government didn't like will be tough to do in the courts.
 
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hover389 said:
Musk did not play god. He made a rule that Starlink is to be used for defensive purposes only. Its not his fault The Ukrainians tried to use it for offensive purpose when they knew the rules.
Click to expand...
Yep. Simple breach of terms of service. Nothing treasonous about shutting that down.
 
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Dimitriid said:
You're only seeing this as 'The enemy of Ukraine' but the case can (And in the past, has been) easily made that aiding an enemy of the US, Russia, would certainly count as treason. The entirety of the McCarthian persecution was based on aiding and abetting the USSR And that was largely without a direct declaration of war from the US to the USSR.
Click to expand...
Why not get the legal definition of treason? The constitution defines this for us:
Constitution said:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
Click to expand...
Well we’re not at war with Russia, but are we enemies with them? The state department maintains no formal list of enemies, but Wikipedia defines this term by citing legal precedence:
Wikipedia said:
Enemies are subjects of a foreign government that is in open hostility with the United States.
Click to expand...
Russia is not openly hostile to us, they’re at war with Ukraine who is not our ally. So I don’t think anyone could be charged for treason at all. In fact the last time someone was found guilty of treason was in 1949 as a Nazi Germany sympathizer.

So the people who were arrested during the cold war would’ve been charged with other crimes or later let go. As far as I know, they were suspected of being a communist political party member, and that political party was made illegal in the US during that time (as a separate law from treason).
 
Google delivers satellite images with some regularity, free for everyone to view in Google Earth/Maps, or Street View... but has stopped updating the images and eliminated (or hid) street view in the regions near the fronts since early last year. Someone might say that this can help the Ukrainian forces in their tactical plans (also the Russian/pro-Russian forces, perhaps that was the initial intention), but I haven't heard anyone protest about it or accuse Google of "treason" for not doing it. Just imagine that the Ukrainian MoD asks for it and Google says no. What reason do they have for doing it?

I´m sorry, but unless spacex/musk made a service contract to give unrestricted satellite access to the Ukrainian forces, what spacex/musk does or does not with its assets is its business. Neither SpaceX, nor the US has any legal binding with the Ukrainian military forces.

Unless the USGov "convinces" them or they make an agreement/contract, they don't have to do anything about it. They are not at war...
...unless you agree it is a proxy war.
 
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Dimitriid said:
Look I'm not getting back here to discuss individually with each Musk sycophant so don't expect conversation, but it is pretty clear that there is only one way to classify what he did: treason.

Now I do not support the penalty for being found guilty of treason however I do support some consequences to prevent him from this kind of interference again, mainly having 100% of his wealth and assets taken away from him and being barred from public ownership of companies or participating in politics directly or indirectly in the future. You know, actually useful sentencing vs punitive BS that will accomplish nothing.
Click to expand...

interference what? He gave them thousands of stations for "free" with one or a few conditions. Did they not comply? Well, spacex/musk does as it sees fit. They do not have (or perhaps had) any legal binding to let their assets be used without limits as others see fit. Do you know the limits that the United States places on the use of its weapons SOLD to its own clients? and this is with real agreed legal limits/terms, and not free goddies. If the USGov /DoD want the Ukrainian forces to use Starlink without limits, then they have to make a contract with spacex (perhaps they already did after this case) or provide them with access to their own satellites for that same use. none have any legal binding, and they are not at war...
...unless you/they classify it as a proxy war.
 
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Given the circumstances I think accusations of treason or treachery are a little strong. However the biggest issues with Musk is his impulsive nature and inconsistency. This is a real war. Once he gave Ukraine access to Starlink - thats it, he was no longer a neutral party, he aligned himself. That's how he's "in this war". Rumination will do him more harm than good now.
 
Elon provides Starlink to aid Ukranian people not the war. Maybe he should take all of them back. Treason? You guys are getting that stupid !!!
 
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Dimitriid said:
Look I'm not getting back here to discuss individually with each Musk sycophant so don't expect conversation, but it is pretty clear that there is only one way to classify what he did: treason.

Now I do not support the penalty for being found guilty of treason however I do support some consequences to prevent him from this kind of interference again, mainly having 100% of his wealth and assets taken away from him and being barred from public ownership of companies or participating in politics directly or indirectly in the future. You know, actually useful sentencing vs punitive BS that will accomplish nothing.
Click to expand...
It's a private company that can do whatever it wants. Cutting service all of the sudden to customers is a crappy thing to do and doing so to people who's lives depend on it is also crappy. It's not treason, though. If you are going to use a word in a public accusation, you should look it up first to make sure you understand it.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

MyIOnU said:
Elon provides Starlink to aid Ukranian people not the war. Maybe he should take all of them back.
Click to expand...

Starlink used by the Ukrainian military is aiding Ukranian people. Taking it back wouldn't make any sense.

kinetix said:
Google delivers satellite images with some regularity, free for everyone to view in Google Earth/Maps, or Street View... but has stopped updating the images and eliminated (or hid) street view in the regions near the fronts since early last year. Someone might say that this can help the Ukrainian forces in their tactical plans (also the Russian/pro-Russian forces, perhaps that was the initial intention), but I haven't heard anyone protest about it or accuse Google of "treason" for not doing it. Just imagine that the Ukrainian MoD asks for it and Google says no. What reason do they have for doing it?
Click to expand...
Modern militaries don't need publicly available mapping data from Google. Since the Russian Military isn't a modern military, they likely rely on public mapping data.
 
"Elon Musk disabled Starlink during Ukraine attack on Russian ships over fears of nuclear reprisals"

This also means he can reduce the speed of your Starlink internet connection or cut it all together...!
 
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