Elon Musk reportedly says Tesla has 10 months to break even, outlines 'hardcore' cost-cutting...
- Thread starter Polycount
- Start date
SpatulaCity
Posts: 25 +33
Hmm. This doesn't sound like good news to publish. Also, with the U.S. govt essentially banning the Chinese telecom Huawei from operating in the states, I'll bet that China does something similar to an American company like Tesla, which is building a gigafactory in Shanghai. Even if the gigafactory somehoow gets completed in China, it probably wouldn't be too long before fake Chinese branded Teslas start outselling the real ones.
We need alternatives to gasoline cars. Our politicians are already bought by the gas empires.
Tesla, must be given support. If Chevy was helped, chevy which doesnt even stand close to tesla, then much more should tesla be aided.
Tesla, must be given support. If Chevy was helped, chevy which doesnt even stand close to tesla, then much more should tesla be aided.
QuantumPhysics
Posts: 6,306 +7,258
The Model X and Model S lose money on every single sale. I have no idea why we are subsidizing the rich with tax incentives so they can drive around all high and mighty in their electric gimmicks.
These cars should have been sold at full price since the beginning.
These cars should have been sold at full price since the beginning.
I see several problems related to EVs in general. First is the lithium battery problem which can only get worse. There is the possibility that graphine batteries (made out of a form of carbon) are on the horizon, but who knows how long it will be before production of such batteries is sufficient.
Secondly, and entirely relevant to the overall picture for any EV is the fact that in the US we only produce domestically about 60% of the electricity we currently use with no logistics as to producing more currently in place. If a large number of EVs where to come online in the next 5 years we would have no way to provide the power to feed them, nor do we have recharging stations in place even if massive amounts of electricity were to be produced. We have a problem!
Secondly, and entirely relevant to the overall picture for any EV is the fact that in the US we only produce domestically about 60% of the electricity we currently use with no logistics as to producing more currently in place. If a large number of EVs where to come online in the next 5 years we would have no way to provide the power to feed them, nor do we have recharging stations in place even if massive amounts of electricity were to be produced. We have a problem!
All employees should be shareholders imo and they should have to right to get rid of CEO's and directors they deem unfit to work. Musk works all the hours under the sun micromanaging decisions instead of letting directors and management do their jobs.
EndRessentiment
Posts: 80 +79
Musk can be an asshat, but what's with all the naysayers? What is the point of all this "see, it's not going to work!"? Competition is nice, so wouldn't it be nice for Tesla to succeed? And I know Tesla has its shortcomings too... They dabble in marketing hyperbole, too.
I don't get the irrationality of this Tesla bashing. One of the main attempts at cleaner cars, why oppose that? It's nice to have less dirty gases in the cities, to mitigate the destructive influence we have on the climate. This "down with Tesla" stuff can sound rather childish, and is sometimes not that far removed from some of Musk's twitter dealings.
I don't get the irrationality of this Tesla bashing. One of the main attempts at cleaner cars, why oppose that? It's nice to have less dirty gases in the cities, to mitigate the destructive influence we have on the climate. This "down with Tesla" stuff can sound rather childish, and is sometimes not that far removed from some of Musk's twitter dealings.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
Every car manufacturer EXCEPT Tesla is doing research into battery technology and has been for years. Further, they are not bloviating about it like Tesla has been.
This is part of Musk's "mystique" is that he bloviates to a crowd that wants to hear he is the savior of humanity when he is really doing almost nothing to further EV tech. Musk tells everyone who wants to hear that that he is the savior of humanity that he is the savior of humanity, and people yell "Yeah, we're saved by the great Dog Musk," without in the least bit his bloviating triggering their BS detectors.
IMO, if you are going to do EVs you should be heavily invested in battery research. I highly doubt that Musk/Tesla has even $0.01 invested in battery research. This has been my biggest gripe against Tesla, aside from the fart turn signal noises, is that with all Musk's "genius" and supposed money, he is not doing one iota of battery research. Rather, he is leaving that up to Panasonic. Tesla's fricken cars are designed with off-the-shelf batteries about the size of AA batteries.
I am not saying that there will be a breakthrough soon, however, there are several developments out there that have come to the forefront, some have the potential to eliminate any concerns about range anxiety - whether we will see them in the marketplace any time soon is another matter.
However, NONE, not ONE IOTA, of these battery developments have come Musk/Tesla.
As I have said before, Musk launched himself in the driver's seat of the Tesla on Falcon Heavy - the dummy stayed behind.
Marketing hyperbole? How about all the SpaceX launches that have occurred a few days before Tesla earnings reports? This is a classic distraction move. I'm surprised that so few actually have caught on to the sham.
IMO, Musk has had YEARS of time to make his business successful, and I'm betting that 10-months will make absolutely NO difference because there is a shyster at the helm.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
If only Musk had a clue as to what a promise is and how to fulfill it.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
You keep pounding on the battery technology thing as if Musk should be doing something new there. Why? He has no financial incentive to do so.
Battery tech is something that's developed by material scientists and that's something that Musk does not do. Why TF should he give a **** about battery tech? His company takes off the shelf tech and makes sellable cars from it. That's it. He doesn't need to do anything else.
Unfortunately he does. He shoots off his mouth and smokes pot during interviews and accuses people of being pedos and everything else *****ic. This is his downfall and why so many people don't like him.
I just don't see why he should do something like developing battery tech when those improvements come as a result of many different scientists across the world making multiple incremental advances which make batteries slowly more efficient. Musk at best could add in an incremental advance or two, and then more people would complain about him taking government money to do that like he does for his cars.
Battery tech is something that's developed by material scientists and that's something that Musk does not do. Why TF should he give a **** about battery tech? His company takes off the shelf tech and makes sellable cars from it. That's it. He doesn't need to do anything else.
Unfortunately he does. He shoots off his mouth and smokes pot during interviews and accuses people of being pedos and everything else *****ic. This is his downfall and why so many people don't like him.
I just don't see why he should do something like developing battery tech when those improvements come as a result of many different scientists across the world making multiple incremental advances which make batteries slowly more efficient. Musk at best could add in an incremental advance or two, and then more people would complain about him taking government money to do that like he does for his cars.
yRaz
Posts: 6,399 +9,459
Tesla built the largest battery factory on the world and invented a new standard that drastically increased energy density on battery packs, what the eff are you smoking?
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
I have to ask you what are you smoking?
He's done nothing in the way of pure research. His batteries are all composed of off-the-shelf components. Literally anyone, assuming that they have access to the cash, could easily do what Musk did.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
WTF should he give a crap about battery technology?I guess that is something that you will have to figure out yourself, right?
Its not like his businesses depend on it, now, is it?
EDIT: A few years back, I worked for a very large company of 80K+ employees and that company was also very technical with a very large R&D department. There were some in the company that had the attitude that the technical things that they needed were just going to magically appear on the market when they were needed.
Well, to make the long story short, that company is now all but out-of-business. I think they have maybe 1K or so employees now.
Last edited:
Mugsy
Posts: 772 +203
I suggested a few years ago... right after Tesla debuted their "battery swap" technology... that they could both DRASTICALLY cut the price of their cars and mitigate the problem of so many people (particularly apartment dwellers like myself) of having no place to plug-in IF TESLA RETAINED OWNERSHIP OF THE BATTERIES and eliminated it from the cost of their vehicles. And at the same time, partnered with major "gas station" companies to install "battery swap" kiosks (looking like a car wash) where you could trade your drained battery for a fully charged fresh one in two minutes for a modest fee.
The three biggest reasons so many people are hesitant to buy EV's are the high cost vs a better equipped non-EV, lengthy charging times, and the lack of charging stations.
"Gas station" companies that fear the coming of EVs should be more than happy to be offered a way to make a buck off EVs.
Why Tesla isn't pursuing this is beyond me. They invented the "battery swap" technology only to not use it???
The three biggest reasons so many people are hesitant to buy EV's are the high cost vs a better equipped non-EV, lengthy charging times, and the lack of charging stations.
"Gas station" companies that fear the coming of EVs should be more than happy to be offered a way to make a buck off EVs.
Why Tesla isn't pursuing this is beyond me. They invented the "battery swap" technology only to not use it???
I guess that is something that you will have to figure out yourself, right?
Its not like his businesses depend on it, now, is it?
EDIT: A few years back, I worked for a very large company of 80K+ employees and that company was also very technical with a very large R&D department. There were some in the company that had the attitude that the technical things that they needed were just going to magically appear on the market when they were needed.
Well, to make the long story short, that company is now all but out-of-business. I think they have maybe 1K or so employees now.
Your story implies cause and effect but that can't be determined. That's an anecdote, though if you have an article about it I'd like to read it.
Is someone outcompeting Tesla on the battery-powered car front? Does someone else have exclusive battery tech which will run Tesla out of business? If you follow battery tech, you'll find that advances in battery chemistry have been slow and dogged but consistent. A lot of different places, mostly material science departments at colleges, are making the regular plodding advances. A lot of places and a lot of scientific publications.
Tesla on their own cannot hope to compete with that volume of research though they could contribute to it if they wanted. However they can license any new tech when it comes out. Division of labor keeps Tesla doing what they do best, making electric cars, and the material scientists doing what they do best, making battery tech advances.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,684 +8,825
No, what Tesla does best, is lose money by the armored truckload.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
Careful, Captain, we are on hallowed ground.
Well, that was insider information and why I left out the name of the company. There were many other factors that contributed, but there was significant arrogance in other areas, too, IMO.
As far as Tesla knowing how to manufacture electric cars, or even cars in general, Musk is on record saying that they had a lot to learn, and on record saying that their lack of understanding of the manufacturing process was at least partly responsible for the losses that Tesla incurred.
IMO, if anything, Tesla is a lesson on how not to run a company, yet, Musk is a leader in bloviating how fantastic he and his vehicles are while losing hundreds of millions of dollars a month.
There are many other manufacturers that are planning on bringing out EVs in the not too distant future, and at least a few of those are actively doing battery research. And more importantly, IMO, is they don't bloviate about how they are going to save the world. As I see it, they want to make a quality product.
My bet is that those manufacturers will do a much better job quality wise in the production of their EVs.
The Leaf, on its own, is successful; what it does not have, and does not need, IMO, is stupid acceleration that you literally can't use anywhere legally, yet is a magnet for those who are testosterone challenged.
Musk saying he thinks that Tesla may be 10-months from folding is either him facing honestly the fact that Tesla, beyond making an EV, is nowhere near the definition of a successful business, or yet another bloviating stunt of his that he hopes to turn into a fundraiser.
And about battery capacity - https://phys.org/news/2019-01-tiny-silicon-particles-power-lithium.html Some day, the tech will be there, and if I were leading a company that depended on high-capacity batteries, I would be attempting to work with any university doing research that looks so promising.
Similar threads
