GeForce RTX 2080 Ti vs GTX 1080 Ti vs GTX 980 Ti: Flagship Versus

Endymio

Posts: 651   +524
As much as we all like to see enormous performance/price gains every year, NVidia didn't seem to have much trouble selling the 2080ti's, so I'd say their pricing was accurate enough.
 
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Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,995   +2,460
The biggest issue was price. 30% more power isnt bad per gen, but at nearly double the price? Turing basically either had the same perf/$ ratio or slightly HIGHER then pascal did. That was a major dissapointment, added onto by AMD refusing to release a 5800xt or 5900xt.
 

Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,995   +2,460
This is why I buy cards from two generations ago - good enough for 1080p.
It's true, the biggest driver of graphical demand today is resolution, whereas previously it was improved textures and polygon counts. While those are still going up, if you've stuck at 1080p realistically you could have gone 7+ years on the same GPU. Even the archaic 7970 still works OK at 1080p today.

I cant think of another time where that was possible. My vega 64 is still chugging along no problem, ususally by now I'd be looking at cards 2-3 gens newer.
 
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yeeeeman

Posts: 332   +279
2080ti at a first glance might seem like a rip off compared to 1080ti. Also, normal gamers care only about general performance, so rasterization. With Turing, nvidia took a big risk and devoted actually quite a big part of their die to Tensor Cores and Ray Tracing cores which were R&D and were robbing from the budget silicon that was previously devoted to rasterization. Another big role in this has to do with AMD, which frankly hasn't been able to give nvidia a beating at the top for too long now, so they could jack up the prices as high as they wanted. All in all, given 2080ti has some novel functionality and it is a huge die, I would say a price close to 1000 bucks is with merit, but 1200$ is just because of lack of competition.
 
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Shadowboxer

Posts: 933   +553
Pretty much as expected. People will complain about prices but they aren’t coming down and clearly enough people are willing to pay them. Suck it up or buy a console.
 
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Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,995   +2,460
Pretty much as expected. People will complain about prices but they aren’t coming down and clearly enough people are willing to pay them. Suck it up or buy a console.
Not everyone is a mindless consoomer. The proper response to products getting to expensive is to continue lodging complaints and abstain from buying th eproduct until the situation changes, not "just buy a conslow bruh".
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 933   +553
Not everyone is a mindless consoomer. The proper response to products getting to expensive is to continue lodging complaints and abstain from buying th eproduct until the situation changes, not "just buy a conslow bruh".
Buying one of these products doesn’t make you “mindless”.

Thinking the prices will come down definitely is “mindless”. I hear lots of people saying the same as you. But it doesn’t matter, enough other people will continue to buy the product, Nvidia doesn’t need everyone’s money.

We can either complain about it endlessly and wear everyone out. Or we can get on with it. Go to a motorsport forum and despite things costing way more in that world, people complain about it far less.
 
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QuantumPhysics

Posts: 3,517   +3,355
When you build a new computer and pay top dollar for a video card, you're doing so for "future proofing".

It will be some time before gaming moves beyond 4K. The 1080Ti, Titan Xp, and the 2080Ti justify their premiums by offering excellent 1440p numbers and good 4K numbers.

Most gaming monitors are 1440p @ 144Hz while the 4K gaming monitors are high priced and purchased less.

Most games being developed can be run on a 1660Ti and don't necessarily need to have the high end cards since the games can be run on gaming laptops in 1080p.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 3,517   +3,355
People complain about the outrageous cost of Nvidia's GPU's but it seems like they've forgotten that during 2016 -2018, the Cryptocurrency hype had caused just about all Computer parts to skyrocket.

SSD, RAM, GPU, CPU... everything cost more because people were buying way more than they needed to build miners.

I never, ever thought I'd see people walking out of Microcenter with multiple GPU. They had to impose purchase limits (2 per customer) as if I couldn't just buy 2 and then come back an hour later, or visit the next Microcenter 10 miles away. It was like everyone was running dual cards.
 
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Theinsanegamer

Posts: 1,995   +2,460
Buying one of these products doesn’t make you “mindless”.

Thinking the prices will come down definitely is “mindless”. I hear lots of people saying the same as you. But it doesn’t matter, enough other people will continue to buy the product, Nvidia doesn’t need everyone’s money.
Saying "well we have no choice but to pay more " IS mindless consumerism. Buy the product citizen, no matter the price, and dont you dare complain about it!

No. As a consumer, I absolutely have a right to complain if I feel the price is too high. I am not a corporate apologist, and will not simply "go with the flow" because "well there's nothing you can do about it". You have other options, buying from AMD, buying used, buying previous gen, or simply abstaining from buying a product in a generation that is rampantly overpriced. And as consumers, you let the company know, publically, WHY you are not buying, because if you dont the behaviour will continue. If enough consumers stop buying Nvidia will notice.

It's also ironic that you advocate for simply ponying up the cash instead of complaining. You ARE the problem, the very type of person you state is responsible for jacking up the price. People with your attitude are the very one you complain about in the first place.
Go to a motorsport forum and despite things costing way more in that world, people complain about it far less.
This is the definition of a strawman. First of all, prices of motorsport equipment isnt comparable to graphics cards for a number of reasons. Second, You clearly have not spent much time on motorsports forums if you think there are not plenty of people complaining about rediculously high prices on things. The key is, they complain, and the companies LISTEN, because sales begin to drop.

Third, even if you were correct, this would be "whataboutism" and doesnt dismiss the original point. Motorsports doesnt have anything to do with the price of gaming GPUs and is not relevant, you merely bring it up to reinforce a totally different point.
We can either complain about it endlessly and wear everyone out. Or we can get on with it.
"STOP COMPLAINING AND LET ME CONSOOOOOM!!!!!"

If you find complaints about high prices tiring, then go pay $2000 for a gaming GPU. But dont tell me I cant complain about the high price, because I'll happily tell you where you can stick your $2000 hunk of silicon.
 
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Shadowboxer

Posts: 933   +553
Saying "well we have no choice but to pay more " IS mindless consumerism. Buy the product citizen, no matter the price, and dont you dare complain about it!

No. As a consumer, I absolutely have a right to complain if I feel the price is too high. I am not a corporate apologist, and will not simply "go with the flow" because "well there's nothign you can do about it". You have other options, buying from AMD, buying used, buying previous gen, or simply abstaining from buying a product in a generation that is rampantly overpriced. And as consumers, you let the company know, publically, WHy you are not buying, because if you dont the behaviour will continue. If enough consumers stop buying Nvidia will notice.

It's also ironic that you advocate for simply ponying up the cash instead of complaining. You ARE the problem, the very type of person you state is responsible for jacking up the price. People with your attitude are the very one you complain about in the first place.

This is the definition of a strawman. First of all, prices of motorsport equipment isnt comparable to graphics cards for a number of reasons. Second, You clearly have not spent much time on motorsports forums if you think there ar enot plenty of people complaining about rediculously high prices on things. The key is, they complain, and the companies LISTEN, because sales begin to drop.

Third, even if you were correct, this would be "whataboutism" and doesnt dismiss the original point.
I agree, if others like me are willing to pay these prices then yes you have a problem with my spending. Because as long as enough people like me are happy to pay the prices then they won’t come down. And yes you’re within your rights to complain as much as you like. I’m just fed up with it, please concern yourself less with my spending. I can assure you, no matter how many negative comments you leave the prices won’t come down and people like me won’t be dissuaded.

And yes of course id like to pay less. However I’d like to have a graphics card more. I could sit here complaining about it on some cheap old ageing system or I could suck it up and get on with it.

Of course I could lose my job. Or the prices could increase to beyond my budget. However if these things happen I doubt I’d take to a tech forum and complain in order to get the luxury items I desire.
 
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The only thing that will force nVidia to lower their prices is competition from other manufacturers.
This is why big navi is such a potential tipping point. if AMD can produce a lineup of cards that are close enough to nVidia's ampere lineup AND undercut them on price, then team green will have no choice but to drop prices.
The complete lack of real competition at the high end is ultimately what has led to this price inflation.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 651   +524
Saying "well we have no choice but to pay more " IS mindless consumerism....You ARE the problem, the very type of person you state is responsible for jacking up the price.
1. No one is forcing you to buy new video cards. Every new card released is an option: additional freedom of choice. Most people like having choices.

2. NVidia has a certain margin on each card. Even if every consumer on the planet abstains from buying, they won't produce cards below margin. And, if they don't receive that margin plus enough extra to cover R&D and a reasonable ROI, they will stop developing new and better cards entirely.

That's how economics work. You may not like the fact that many people find these cards an attractive price-for-benefit option, and enough of them do so to keep NVidia producing them-- but those consumers are financing the next wave of graphics. They are the solution, not the problem. There are hundreds of thousands of different industries in the world, and you would be hard pressed to name one that has advanced more and faster in the last decade than graphics cards. That's what these high prices give us ... and we all benefit from it.
 

Endymio

Posts: 651   +524
2080ti only 20% faster than a 1080ti. honestly people are crazy spending so much to upgrade for such tiny gains.
With ray-tracing enabled, the gains are 200% to 300% or even more. As other posters have pointed out, NVidia devoted much of the new silicon on the 2000-series to raytracing capabilities. That was a gamble, and had it not paid off, NVidia would have lost billions. But enough consumers believed that entirely new capability was well worth the cost. They voted with their wallets, and won the election.
 
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Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,240   +2,057
Price problems were highlighted by the Xbox Series X Hot chips presentation and will of course apply just the same to cutting edge GPUs.

There is still not yet an issue in increasing transistor density, but cost to design and manufacture these chips is increasing rapidly. The cost per transistor is not reducing, so in the past a node jump gave you the same performance at much lower costs, now it doesn't.

Xbox-Moores.jpg

Here Xbox One's die in 2013 is bigger than Series X die in 2020, but the cost for Series X is far higher because the cost of the wafers are higher AND the yields are lower.

I am quite sure Nvidia do have good margins on their products, but the truth is the cost to actually produce these cards is always increasing, and quickly.

This also goes for DRAM prices, where Microsoft highlighted the fact the days of 30 percent cost reductions year on year are long gone, and it's been more or less 5 percent for the past 8 years.
 
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Jay Watt

Posts: 7   +6
I think people thought that ray-tracing was going to be a game changer, and it probably will be eventually, but if you bought a 2080ti for the ray-tracing you've been only able to use it in a handful of titles. Still not nearly as many as Nvidia said there would be by this point, so either Nvidia lied to the consumer or to themselves. You can blame game developers but it was wishful thinking to believe they'd adopt a change this quickly and Nvidia knew that.

Almost all arguments about whether buying something was a good decision are self-biased, we tend to downplay arguments against our decision and emphasize the ones in support. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
 
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Endymio

Posts: 651   +524
Fan boys are just crazy. there is no games to take advantage of these tensor cores unless you think playing quake is a good game....a 20 to 30% performance upgrade is just insulting.
No one buys a 2080ti to play games at 181 FPS in 1080p without raytracing. There are quite a few games which now take advantage of raytracing, and the performance gain in this case was -- when the card was first released -- infinite, since a 1080 could not then ray trace. An infinite increase in speed is pretty good, I would say.

Even now, with raytracing enabled for the 1080, you can find games which get 300%+ performance increase on a 2080...and in fact, the only reason you even have the option to ray trace on a 1080 is because NVidia is selling those pricey 2000-series cards.
 
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