No, Intel wasn't granted a patent for AMD Zen architecture

nanoguy

Posts: 1,183   +20
Staff member
In brief: There are countless examples of technologies that the patent holder may never move beyond the design table. There are perhaps even more filed just to prevent competitors from patenting something a company might work on in the future. However, as a recent Intel patent illustrates, there are also some patents filled with plagiarized content.

On Wednesday, a Twitter user going by Underfox revealed an interesting-looking patent recently awarded to Intel. Underfox suspects the patent may be related to Intel's Ocean Cove CPU architecture, which is expected to be the successor of the Golden Cove architecture used in the performance cores of 12th generation Alder Lake processor designs.

More importantly, a superficial inspection reveals it contains blocks of text and diagrams that look strikingly similar to those used to describe AMD's Zen processor architecture during a presentation at the Hot Chips 28 event in 2016. So it looks as if Intel applied for a patent for AMD's tech in August 2018 when it submitted the application.

However, upon closer inspection, the 122-page document describes several architectural features of x86 and Arm CPUs, GPUs, RISC-V, and more. Hardware analyst and former AnandTech senior editor Dr. Ian Cutress notes that it is mostly support materials for a generic CPU architecture that Intel wanted to describe in the patent — a method to clear a cache line that isn't susceptible to side-channel attacks of the Spectre variety.

Interestingly, the document cites an article written by Dr. Cutress back in 2016 and uses black-and-white versions of the AMD slides discussed in his analysis of the first-generation Zen architecture. Intel and AMD have a cross-licensing agreement signed in 2009 that prevents the two companies from suing each other for patent infringement, but this doesn't apply to the document in question.

It appears to be a case of a poorly-designed patent document with plagiarized content. Intel doesn't claim to have invented AMD's Zen microarchitecture, but rather the actual patented tech is buried in copy-pasted content. The amateurish job has invited speculation that Intel produced this patent with malicious intent, but we have yet to see evidence to support this. If anything, it looks like Intel has been working on ways to improve the security of its processors, even though it (officially) believes its designs are secure enough as they are.

Permalink to story.

 

The Tech Gen

Posts: 18   +17
Two weeks ago Supreme Court rejected Intel's bid to challenge rule on patent reviews

"Intel had asked the high court to overturn a U.S. Patent and Trademark Office rule that has reduced the number of patents reviewed by a PTO tribunal."

Intel infringing on other companies' patents isn't new either. Countless against Intel have been filed over the years. And just 2 days ago

- Health Discovery : Files Infringement Suit Against Intel Corporation - Form 8-K




 

Irata

Posts: 2,036   +3,460
Amazing how the patent was granted. Are they even checked by the patent office ?

Either way, it‘s hopefully challenged.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Don't expect anything like this from AMD for at least 5 years, they're fully into the enterprise server market.
Maybe, maybe not. AMD patented a big.LITTLE design 1-2 years ago.

Intel still sit on like 85% of enterprise market. I sell hardware b2b for a living. We sell like 1 AMD laptop for every 25 Intel laptop. Intel is pretty much back now, I expect AMD to drop in marketshare going forward from here.

Computing and graphics (Desktop CPUs and GPUs) stands for over 50% of AMDs income. They want Enterprise market, yeah, but it's not where they make most of their income.
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 486   +621
Maybe, maybe not. AMD patented a big.LITTLE design 1-2 years ago.

Intel still sit on like 85% of enterprise market. I sell hardware b2b for a living. We sell like 1 AMD laptop for every 25 Intel laptop. Intel is pretty much back now, I expect AMD to drop in marketshare going forward from here.

Computing and graphics (Desktop CPUs and GPUs) stands for over 50% of AMDs income. They want Enterprise market, yeah, but it's not where they make most of their income.

The top end of Enterprise, where Storage or other needs for High amount of IO is needed. AMD is pretty much the only option. Intel is hardly good choice in these areas, and this is where AMD has been growing the most.

The Area where AMD hasnt even made a dent is the much higher volume market of entry level server hardware. Like the Dell R4x0 R6x0 or R7x0, & T4x0... These machines are all over the place, all intel. And the move away from intel in these areas are simply not happening. Sure there are some AMD options, but pricing just isn't there.

I do expect Zen4 to be a pretty big step from Zen 3, Not only IPC but in clock speed too. I can only expect a jump just as big as the jump from Zen 2 to Zen 3, if not bigger.

Raptor Lake is looking to be a more refined AdlerLake. Their Clock speeds are already being pushed on the performance cores. So I don't expect to see much of an increase from single core that isn't mainly from clock speed gains, the little there will be on the performance cores. We do know Raptor Lake is getting more cores, and efficiency cores will have higher clocks. This is where most of the performance increases come from. I expect it to compete with Zen4 on the multithread benchmarks, but fall behind on single core performance.
 

Alfatawi Mendel

Posts: 188   +277
Maybe, maybe not. AMD patented a big.LITTLE design 1-2 years ago.

Intel still sit on like 85% of enterprise market. I sell hardware b2b for a living. We sell like 1 AMD laptop for every 25 Intel laptop. Intel is pretty much back now, I expect AMD to drop in marketshare going forward from here.

Computing and graphics (Desktop CPUs and GPUs) stands for over 50% of AMDs income. They want Enterprise market, yeah, but it's not where they make most of their income.
Are laptops actually powerful servers now? Jeez! Who knew? But seriously....Intel still owns by far, the largest share of the server market because server purchases are multi-year investments - But AMD have been eating their lunch, and increasing their share impressively the past 2 years. Sapphire Rapids has a lot riding on it. It needs to be seriously good.
 
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Alfatawi Mendel

Posts: 188   +277
Yeah, this is definitely:

(a) An intern's summer project to 'describe how a CPU works'
(b) Said intern took generic CPU arch slides from internet, and ended up with AMD
(c) Actual patent covers some minor thing to do with security and monitoring
(d) 122 pages. https://t.co/3RCh2t4GDK
— 𝐷'. 𝐼'' 𝐶''''''' (@IanCutress)
April 6, 2022

(a) Ian Cutress is now an Intel employee, and hardly likely to diss his new employers.
(b) Since when did Intel entrust important patents to be written up by an 'Intern'?
(c) 'Minor things to do with security and monitoring' which would be Spectre variants which were anything but 'minor' for Intel.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
The top end of Enterprise, where Storage or other needs for High amount of IO is needed. AMD is pretty much the only option. Intel is hardly good choice in these areas, and this is where AMD has been growing the most.

The Area where AMD hasnt even made a dent is the much higher volume market of entry level server hardware. Like the Dell R4x0 R6x0 or R7x0, & T4x0... These machines are all over the place, all intel. And the move away from intel in these areas are simply not happening. Sure there are some AMD options, but pricing just isn't there.

I do expect Zen4 to be a pretty big step from Zen 3, Not only IPC but in clock speed too. I can only expect a jump just as big as the jump from Zen 2 to Zen 3, if not bigger.

Raptor Lake is looking to be a more refined AdlerLake. Their Clock speeds are already being pushed on the performance cores. So I don't expect to see much of an increase from single core that isn't mainly from clock speed gains, the little there will be on the performance cores. We do know Raptor Lake is getting more cores, and efficiency cores will have higher clocks. This is where most of the performance increases come from. I expect it to compete with Zen4 on the multithread benchmarks, but fall behind on single core performance.
Not anymore lol. Sapphire Rapids have PCIe 5.0.

AMD took marketshare because Intel was slow to adapt PCIe 4.0 but now Intel is in the lead. Former CEO was sleeping and tons of top dogs was fired for sleeping on the job too. Intel is changing and they are changing fast.

AMD had a good run, but it is over now. They are forced to focus on performance per dollar again.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Are laptops actually powerful servers now? Jeez! Who knew? But seriously....Intel still owns by far, the largest share of the server market because server purchases are multi-year investments - But AMD have been eating their lunch, and increasing their share impressively the past 2 years. Sapphire Rapids has a lot riding on it. It needs to be seriously good.

FYI most companies spend far more on actual laptops for the employees compared to servers. It's like 1:10 or even more and Intel sits hard on the laptop segment, while still having 85% server marketshare so yeah..
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 486   +621
FYI most companies spend far more on actual laptops for the employees compared to servers. It's like 1:10 or even more and Intel sits hard on the laptop segment, while still having 85% server marketshare so yeah..
I know, I buy them all the time. I make sure to get best bang for our back, without compromising on crap. Dell Repts suck at picking out a good product, you really always have to do it for them.

If there was more options for AMD, I would totally jump on board. Intel Laptops have horrible battery life, their chips are power hungry and run hot. AMD's mobile chips have had better performance per watt for a long time. Sure Intel's Adler lake is a huge improvement and catches up with AMD. Doesn't help the years of bad intel devices.

I'm no Intel or AMD fan boy. But Adlerlake is a late in life Zen 3 competitor. Rocket Lake was originally the Intel to counter Zen 3. Zen 3 is old ATM, its been on the market for a long time. Zen4 is going to be a massive jump. I don't see Raptor Lake being much of an issue, not with it mostly being a clock speed and core clock bump.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
I know, I buy them all the time. I make sure to get best bang for our back, without compromising on crap. Dell Repts suck at picking out a good product, you really always have to do it for them.

If there was more options for AMD, I would totally jump on board. Intel Laptops have horrible battery life, their chips are power hungry and run hot. AMD's mobile chips have had better performance per watt for a long time. Sure Intel's Adler lake is a huge improvement and catches up with AMD. Doesn't help the years of bad intel devices.

I'm no Intel or AMD fan boy. But Adlerlake is a late in life Zen 3 competitor. Rocket Lake was originally the Intel to counter Zen 3. Zen 3 is old ATM, its been on the market for a long time. Zen4 is going to be a massive jump. I don't see Raptor Lake being much of an issue, not with it mostly being a clock speed and core clock bump.
AMDs general support is terrible. There is way more issues with USB devices, port replicators, multi monitor setups etc. AMD has not been able to deliver chips too, which is why companies like Lenovo (and more) prioritized Intel laptops and their good output of chips (since they make them at their own fabs).

Alder Lake does not only catch up with AMD, it beats them plain and simple, especially for mobile hybrid is very good.

Zen 3 is old? It is what AMD is selling now. How can it be old. AMDs next gen platform is not even close, which is why they are releasing more stop-gap solutions. Zen 4 / Ryzen 7000 series will face Rocket Lake not Alder Lake.

I have seen way more terrible AMD laptops than Intel laptops in the last 5 years that is for sure. Especially users complaining about multi montitor setups, failing ethernet in the port rep etc. And this is why Lenovo sells 95% Intel laptops for enterprise. Many companies bought 100s and even 1000s of laptops during lockdowns and Intel was ready to deliver. This is the reason for Intel sitting hard on the enterprise laptop market. I would be surprised if AMD even has 5% marketshare.

AMD is selling more consumer based laptops than enterprise ones, but Intel also dominates them here.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,625   +1,275
AMDs general support is terrible. There is way more issues with USB devices, port replicators, multi monitor setups etc. AMD has not been able to deliver chips too, which is why companies like Lenovo (and more) prioritized Intel laptops and their good output of chips (since they make them at their own fabs).
This is so funny. You do realize Intel's 10nm tech arrived 3.5 years late? And Intel had huge supply issues when they thought they would have 10nm ready and since 14nm production was lacking heavily. Intel has had more CPU supply issues than AMD on past 5 years. Additionally Intel plans to use TSMC for future CPUs and/or GPUs. So much about having own fabs.
Alder Lake does not only catch up with AMD, it beats them plain and simple, especially for mobile hybrid is very good.
Alder Lake is much hotter than Zen3. And that's only reason why it's faster. On same power output, Zen3 is ahead. Plain and simple.
Zen 3 is old? It is what AMD is selling now. How can it be old. AMDs next gen platform is not even close, which is why they are releasing more stop-gap solutions. Zen 4 / Ryzen 7000 series will face Rocket Lake not Alder Lake.
Zen3 launched November 2020. Yes, it's old now. And yes, Zen4 is coming on schedule.
I have seen way more terrible AMD laptops than Intel laptops in the last 5 years that is for sure. Especially users complaining about multi montitor setups, failing ethernet in the port rep etc. And this is why Lenovo sells 95% Intel laptops for enterprise. Many companies bought 100s and even 1000s of laptops during lockdowns and Intel was ready to deliver. This is the reason for Intel sitting hard on the enterprise laptop market. I would be surprised if AMD even has 5% marketshare.
So like all laptops are Intel and still users are complaining about non-existent AMD laptops. Right.

Again, laptop buyers are stupid and don't really care about battery or thermal performance. On those areas, AMD has been better for years. Just look at desktops. If AMD has better overall package, AMD sells better. So yes, laptop buyers are morons and buy Intel because they don't have a clue about better options.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
This is so funny. You do realize Intel's 10nm tech arrived 3.5 years late? And Intel had huge supply issues when they thought they would have 10nm ready and since 14nm production was lacking heavily. Intel has had more CPU supply issues than AMD on past 5 years. Additionally Intel plans to use TSMC for future CPUs and/or GPUs. So much about having own fabs.

Alder Lake is much hotter than Zen3. And that's only reason why it's faster. On same power output, Zen3 is ahead. Plain and simple.

Zen3 launched November 2020. Yes, it's old now. And yes, Zen4 is coming on schedule.

So like all laptops are Intel and still users are complaining about non-existent AMD laptops. Right.

Again, laptop buyers are stupid and don't really care about battery or thermal performance. On those areas, AMD has been better for years. Just look at desktops. If AMD has better overall package, AMD sells better. So yes, laptop buyers are morons and buy Intel because they don't have a clue about better options.

What is funny about it. Intel was delivering mobile chips in abundance all thru COVID and lockdowns while AMD was struggling with TSMC and their limited output. I know this for a fact because I work with this every day. I sell/ship 10K+ laptops every month and 98% of them are Intel ones. This has nothing to do with Intel 7 node haha.

Alder Lake beats Zen 3 with ease, it's hotter yeah, because clockspeeds are much higher which is the reason why Alder Lake dominates Zen 3 in most games and applications too. However in real-world usage and especially gaming, the watt difference is next to zero and heat is not a problem. You are grasping at straws, living in denial. Intel is back and AMD is back to focussing on value/performance again. Sad but true. They had a good run tho.

Zen 3 is old but AMD has nothing else, which is why they are releasing stopgap-solutions. Zen 4 will face Raptor Lake not Alder Lake. Meteor Lake is going to be a huge leap in 2023.

Laptops when it comes to enterprise cares about AVAILABLITY and COMPATIBILITY, where Intel has been and still is superior.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,625   +1,275
What is funny about it. Intel was delivering mobile chips in abundance all thru COVID and lockdowns while AMD was struggling with TSMC and their limited output. I know this for a fact because I work with this every day. I sell/ship 10K+ laptops every month and 98% of them are Intel ones. This has nothing to do with Intel 7 node haha.
And it also has nothing to do with TSMC's capacity. AMD mobile CPU's are widely available, it's just stupid people wants Intel. In fact, AMD's latest mobile does not even use TSMC 7nm...
Alder Lake beats Zen 3 with ease, it's hotter yeah, because clockspeeds are much higher which is the reason why Alder Lake dominates Zen 3 in most games too. However in real-world usage and especially gaming, the watt difference is next to zero and heat is not a problem. You are grasping at straws, living in denial. Intel is back and AMD is back to focussing on value/performance again. Sad but true.
Lower Alder Lake power consumption on same level Zen3 has, then Zen3 is faster. Alder Lake is much worse than Zen3 but manages to get performance overclocked. That's nothing new. AMD could also make Zen3 power monster that would beat Alder Lake on performance, they just won't bother at this point (Zen4 is coming).

Low thread gaming is far from all "real world usage".
Zen 3 is old but AMD has nothing else, which is why they are releasing stopgap-solutions. Zen 4 will face Raptor Lake not Alder Lake.

Laptops when it comes to enterprise cares about AVAILABLITY and COMPATIBILITY, where Intel has been and still is superior.
AMD has nothing else because they are focusing on Zen4. Raptor Lake is even hotter than Alder Lake, not much else.

Like I said, Intel's availability was abysmal around years ago, 4 months waiting time for laptops was very common. So no, that's not the reason. People rather wait Intel for months than get better AMD. Stupid people.

About "compatibility", give some proper examples that are not caused by user error. Not just "I heard something somewhere" -type of stuff.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
And it also has nothing to do with TSMC's capacity. AMD mobile CPU's are widely available, it's just stupid people wants Intel.

Lower Alder Lake power consumption on same level Zen3 has, then Zen3 is faster. Alder Lake is much worse than Zen3 but manages to get performance overclocked. That's nothing new. AMD could also make Zen3 power monster that would beat Alder Lake on performance, they just won't bother at this point (Zen4 is coming).

Low thread gaming is far from all "real world usage".

AMD has nothing else because they are focusing on Zen4. Raptor Lake is even hotter than Alder Lake, not much else.

Like I said, Intel's availability was abysmal around years ago, 4 months waiting time for laptops was very common. So no, that's not the reason. People rather wait Intel for months than get better AMD. Stupid people.

About "compatibility", give some proper examples that are not caused by user error. Not just "I heard something somewhere" -type of stuff.
AMD mobile chips are not widely available hahah, it literally took MONTHS to get Ryzen based enterprise laptops during COVID in 2020/2021. 3-6 months MEANWHILE Intel laptops was delivered DAY TO DAY. You have no knowledge about these markets, that is very clear.

An overclocked 5800X / PBO uses 200+ watts
AMD could not deliver anything that would beat Intel right now, because they hit a clockspeed wall like on all former Ryzen chips and OC headroom is lower anyway, which is why some users don't even bother overclocking their chips.

Must be hard being an AMD fanboy these times, but get used to it or you will have some really bad years going forward :joy: AMD had a good run, mostly because Intel was stuck on 14nm, those days are gone.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,625   +1,275
AMD mobile chips are not widely available hahah, it literally took MONTHS to get Ryzen based enterprise laptops during COVID in 2020/2021. 3-6 months MEANWHILE Intel laptops was delivered DAY TO DAY. You have no knowledge about these markets, that is very clear.
And how was that AMD's fault? You see, if AMD delivers CPU's but laptop manufacturers cannot deliver laptop, it's not AMD's fault. Breaking news: COVID caused shortage for many things.

Pre-COVID Intel laptop delivery times were 4 months or more. Intel still had 90%+ market share. They just told people to wait for months. And stupid people waited. Market share has Nothing to do with availability.
An overclocked 5800X / PBO uses 200+ watts
AMD could not deliver anything that would beat Intel right now, because they hit a clockspeed wall like on all former Ryzen chips and OC headroom is lower anyway, which is why some users don't even bother overclocking their chips.

Must be hard being an AMD fanboy these times, but get used to it or you will have some really bad years going forward :joy: AMD had a good run, mostly because Intel was stuck on 14nm, those days are gone.
OC headroom is quite low but it's still there. AMD just decided to make cool chip where Intel decided to run hot as Hell. Simple.

Intel's 10nm have no match for even TSMC 7nm and AMD will soon have 5nm. Then Intel is screwed again.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
And how was that AMD's fault? You see, if AMD delivers CPU's but laptop manufacturers cannot deliver laptop, it's not AMD's fault. Breaking news: COVID caused shortage for many things.

Pre-COVID Intel laptop delivery times were 4 months or more. Intel still had 90%+ market share. They just told people to wait for months. And stupid people waited. Market share has Nothing to do with availability.

OC headroom is quite low but it's still there. AMD just decided to make cool chip where Intel decided to run hot as Hell. Simple.

Intel's 10nm have no match for even TSMC 7nm and AMD will soon have 5nm. Then Intel is screwed again.

No, AMD did not deliver chips and their mobile segment was screwed with motherboard, memory and cpu incompatiblity which made it hard for notebook manufacturers. You know nothing. I've talked directly with Lenovo and HP about this stuff.

Not a single time in the last 5 years have I waited "months" for Intel latops. Not even weeks. And I sell/ship 10K+ every month.

AMD also tried to fool buyers into thinking their mobile chips was actually the same as their desktop counter parts. Meaning a 3000 mobile CPU is not Zen 2 but Zen+.

There is pretty much zero headroom on AMDs X chips. Robert Hallock said this and told people that wanted to OC to get NON-X chips. Google it.

Meanwhile people can OC their Intel chips at will as long as they have good cooling. AMDs chips are not "cool" they are just cooler than Intels because Clockspeed is much lower. Ryzen hits a clockspeed wall, Intel chips don't. Overclocking Ryzen is just boring and almost pointless. Top SKUs still needs good cooling to not run hot.

Alder Lake is absolutely smashing Zen 3 in most workloads including gaming so talk about watt usage all your want, most people care about performance in the end ;)


In some of the games Alder Lake literally RAPES Zen 3 almost doubling fps. Intels single thread performance is just miles ahead.

And look at the power consumption is Cyberpunk... Intel uses 50 watts more, while smashing Zen 3 completely. That is called real world power usage.

You can literally buy a i7-12700K, overclock it, and smash even Ryzen 5950X in gaming, while using less power.

12400, 12600 and 12700 are the chips that worry AMD the most, not 12900 series. i5 + i7 uses much less watts than the i9 parts and they are much cheaper.

12600K smashed 5600X to bits and even beat 5800X in most cases, which is why Techspot gave it a 95 score.
Hell even 12400 series most often beats it :joy: especially when you pair it with a board that allows for OC of non-K chips.

FYI It is not a coincidence that AMD dropped the price on all Ryzen 5000 SKUs recently :p Alder Lake SMASHES them in pretty much every single workload. Read this if you are in doubt; https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...8-core-i5-12600k-10-cores-is-on-sale-for-137/

"The Golden Cove cores with their potent IPC and high boost clocks obliterate AMD’s Ryzen 5000 CPUs in pretty much every game."

"It’s worth noting that even the 12600K is faster than AMD’s fastest gaming CPU, the Ryzen 9 5900X which is presently discounted to $399 on Newegg."

:D

Can't wait to see Ryzen 7000 vs Raptor Lake
However Ryzen 8000 vs Meteor Lake is going to be the true battle and DDR5 have matured by then.

INTEL IS BACK FOR REAL. LISA SU IS IN PANIC MODE.

Just kidding, it's nice to have real competition :joy:
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,625   +1,275
No, AMD did not deliver chips and their mobile segment was screwed with motherboard, memory and cpu incompatiblity which made it hard for notebook manufacturers. You know nothing. I've talked directly with Lenovo and HP about this stuff.

Not a single time in the last 5 years have I waited "months" for Intel latops. Not even weeks. And I sell/ship 10K+ every month.
How other manufacturers could make AMD laptops despite "compatibility" issues? Typical excuses why the "cannot" use AMD chips?

You claim Intel did not have supply issues on mobile? Even Intel admitted to concentrating on big chips https://liliputing.com/2019/01/inte...ill-focus-on-high-end-processors-for-now.html

There goes your crediblity.
AMD also tried to fool buyers into thinking their mobile chips was actually the same as their desktop counter parts. Meaning a 3000 mobile CPU is not Zen 2 but Zen+.
And Intel i5 was dual core on mobile but quad on desktop some time :D
There is pretty much zero headroom on AMDs X chips. Robert Hallock said this and told people that wanted to OC to get NON-X chips. Google it.


Meanwhile people can OC their Intel chips at will as long as they have good cooling. AMDs chips are not "cool" they are just cooler than Intels because Clockspeed is much lower. Ryzen hits a clockspeed wall, Intel chips don't. Overclocking Ryzen is just boring and almost pointless. Top SKUs still needs good cooling to not run hot.
Of course Intel overclocks better but again Intel's performance is because on factory overclocking. Lower Intel's power consumption on same level as AMD has and see what happens.
Alder Lake is absolutely smashing Zen 3 in most workloads including gaming so talk about watt usage all your want, most people care about performance in the end ;)


In some of the games Alder Lake literally RAPES Zen 3 almost doubling fps. Intels single thread performance is just miles ahead.
Some badly optimized games run better on Intel for now. So what? Intel is still behind AMD's 2018 server chip and that's what really matters. I don't like it but understand why AMD concentrates on servers.
And look at the power consumption is Cyberpunk... Intel uses 50 watts more, while smashing Zen 3 completely. That is called real world power usage.
That review tells different story on Blender. That's also real world. 12900KS got 70/100 for some reason.
You can literally buy a i7-12700K, overclock it, and smash even Ryzen 5950X in gaming, while using less power.

12400, 12600 and 12700 are the chips that worry AMD the most, not 12900 series. i5 + i7 uses much less watts than the i9 parts and they are much cheaper.

12600K smashed 5600X to bits and even beat 5800X in most cases, which is why Techspot gave it a 95 score.
Hell even 12400 series most often beats it :joy: especially when you pair it with a board that allows for OC of non-K chips.

FYI It is not a coincidence that AMD dropped the price on all Ryzen 5000 SKUs recently :p Alder Lake SMASHES them in pretty much every single workload. Read this if you are in doubt; https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel...8-core-i5-12600k-10-cores-is-on-sale-for-137/

"The Golden Cove cores with their potent IPC and high boost clocks obliterate AMD’s Ryzen 5000 CPUs in pretty much every game."

"It’s worth noting that even the 12600K is faster than AMD’s fastest gaming CPU, the Ryzen 9 5900X which is presently discounted to $399 on Newegg."

:D
No wonder because Zen3 Ryzens are downgraded server chips. Not meant for gaming at all. Sad yes but on servers Intel has no chance.
Can't wait to see Ryzen 7000 vs Raptor Lake
However Ryzen 8000 vs Meteor Lake is going to be the true battle and DDR5 have matured by then.

INTEL IS BACK FOR REAL. LISA SU IS IN PANIC MODE.

Just kidding, it's nice to have real competition :joy:
Considering it took Intel 6 years to go from Skylake to Golden Cove, I won't hold my breath.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
How other manufacturers could make AMD laptops despite "compatibility" issues? Typical excuses why the "cannot" use AMD chips?

You claim Intel did not have supply issues on mobile? Even Intel admitted to concentrating on big chips https://liliputing.com/2019/01/inte...ill-focus-on-high-end-processors-for-now.html

There goes your crediblity.

And Intel i5 was dual core on mobile but quad on desktop some time :D

Of course Intel overclocks better but again Intel's performance is because on factory overclocking. Lower Intel's power consumption on same level as AMD has and see what happens.

Some badly optimized games run better on Intel for now. So what? Intel is still behind AMD's 2018 server chip and that's what really matters. I don't like it but understand why AMD concentrates on servers.

That review tells different story on Blender. That's also real world. 12900KS got 70/100 for some reason.

No wonder because Zen3 Ryzens are downgraded server chips. Not meant for gaming at all. Sad yes but on servers Intel has no chance.

Considering it took Intel 6 years to go from Skylake to Golden Cove, I won't hold my breath.

So you are compairing a different core count desktop to mobile with a completely different architecture while trying to make people believe it's the same? Sigh, a true fanboy detected :joy:

Intel overclocks better, that is right, we all know it. Ryzen is maxed out and have zero headroom. Even AMD said this officially. This has been true since 1000 series and still is with 5000 series. Ryzen always hits a clockspeed-wall, for 1000 series 4 GHz was not even guarranteed. With 5000 series, 4.4 is average, around 1GHz lower than Intel :joy:

AMD does not focus on server market at all :joy: Their main income is from desktop market. Look at their financials. They only earn about 40% from server market, a market which Intel dominates by 85% - So Intel has no chance? Intel dominate the market with ease. Most companies use Intel specific features, need good AVX perf etc. Ryzen does not even support nested virtualization.

Intel dominate enterprise markets completely. The market where the true money are. Intel sits hard on servers and laptops. Two of the most profitable markets ;)

Most games prefer high single thread perf, they have a mainthread, nothing new and won't change. Has nothing to do with bad optimization - you are clueless if you think that. Intel dominates AMD completely in terms of single thread perf. Alder Lake is about 25-33% faster than Zen 3 in terms of single thread perf. Alder Lake has good multi thread perf too tho, which is the reason why 12600K can perform better than 5800X in most multi thread tests.

Intel is only on 10nm but slaps AMDs 7nm chips already. AMD needs 5nm to beat Intel 10nm. Just like AMD needed 7nm to beat 14nm. AMD uses inferior archtecture meaning they need a huge node advantage to be able to compete, sad but true. Intels 4 node is on point tho, and is as dense as TSMC 4nm (hence the name), and this is why Intel 7 is called Intel 7, it's 10nm but as dense as TSMC 7nm.

AMD will have limited output at TSMC going forward, because Nvidia will eat up their 4nm and 5nm with ADA and Hopper, chips are simply going to be more expensive for AMD. Hell even Intel has accuired TSMC 3nm + 4/5nm. AMD has been seeking alternatives because they can't pay the higher price; Google it. They wanted Samsung to make them chips. Apple will always be TSMCs most important customer tho. They will always use TSMCs best process. AMD can't afford to and never will be able to.

AMD is already in decline, happens every time with AMD. Intel and Nvidia are the big players and always come back on top.

I know it's hard to accept for an AMD fanboy but reality calls :D Intel outsold AMD on the CPU market in the last 2 consecutive quarters - Intel wins on value AND performance. 12400 and 12600 rapes Zen 3 and made AMD lower prices like crazy. 12700 and 12900 made Ryzen 5950X cost 399 dollars :joy: 50% lower than MSRP :joy:

AMD better wake up, they are losing the GPU market completely and CPU market is going to be tough in the next few years for AMD too.

Intel will probably eat alot of AMDs dGPU marketshare soon.

Nvidia has like 85% dGPU marketshare, AMD; 15% :joy:

AMD keeps gimping their low and mid-end cards like crazy. That is why people won't buy them. 6500 and 6600 series are terrible. 64-128 bit bus and gimped PCIe lanes :joy:

What is even more funny is that AMD recently got caught boosting AMD CPUs when AMD GPU is used :joy: I hope Techspot will do a test about this, because benchmarks done with those drivers are useless. Oh well most sites use Intel in their test systems anyway I guess because AMD CPU gimps GPU performance :laughing:
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,625   +1,275
So you are compairing a different core count desktop to mobile with a completely different architecture while trying to make people believe it's the same? Sigh, a true fanboy detected :joy:
Of course. Both mess with numbers. Simple as that. It's just you think it's OK when Intel does that but not OK when AMD does. Clear proof you're trolling.
Intel overclocks better, that is right, we all know it. Ryzen is maxed out and have zero headroom. Even AMD said this officially. This has been true since 1000 series and still is with 5000 series. Ryzen always hits a clockspeed-wall, for 1000 series 4 GHz was not even guarranteed. With 5000 series, 4.4 is average, around 1GHz lower than Intel :joy:
AMD cares about performance and power consumption. Intel throws power consumption out of window.
AMD does not focus on server market at all :joy: Their main income is from desktop market. Look at their financials. They only earn about 40% from server market, a market which Intel dominates by 85% - So Intel has no chance? Intel dominate the market with ease. Most companies use Intel specific features, need good AVX perf etc. Ryzen does not even support nested virtualization.

Intel dominate enterprise markets completely. The market where the true money are. Intel sits hard on servers and laptops. Two of the most profitable markets ;)
Then tell me what Intel CPU has chance against Epyc 7742? There is none. And since most AMD's desktop CPUs use same chiplets as Epyc does, that proves AMD concentrates on server market.

Intel has better market share, true. But, looking at products Intel has no chance. People are just stupid to buy Intel. If AVX performance is important, why most supercomputers have huge amount of GPUs? Yeah, Intel's server share is declining fast for reasons.
Most games prefer high single thread perf, they have a mainthread, nothing new and won't change. Has nothing to do with bad optimization - you are clueless if you think that. Intel dominates AMD completely in terms of single thread perf. Alder Lake is about 25-33% faster than Zen 3 in terms of single thread perf. Alder Lake has good multi thread perf too tho, which is the reason why 12600K can perform better than 5800X in most multi thread tests.
Today's games are less depending on single thread performance than before. Howeveryou already mentioned Cyberpunk that is old game already, development started 2012. Very bad example of modern game.

Alder Lake has good multi thread performance because it has moar cores and high power consumption too. Not too complicated.
Intel is only on 10nm but slaps AMDs 7nm chips already. AMD needs 5nm to beat Intel 10nm. Just like AMD needed 7nm to beat 14nm. AMD uses inferior archtecture meaning they need a huge node advantage to be able to compete, sad but true. Intels 4 node is on point tho, and is as dense as TSMC 4nm (hence the name), and this is why Intel 7 is called Intel 7, it's 10nm but as dense as TSMC 7nm.
Where are Alder Lake server chips? Even Intel considers it's way too hot. Like you said, server market is most profitable and Intel has no chance there. And then you say AMD architecture is inferior. Trolling at it's finest 🤦‍♂️
AMD will have limited output at TSMC going forward, because Nvidia will eat up their 4nm and 5nm with ADA and Hopper, chips are simply going to be more expensive for AMD. Hell even Intel has accuired TSMC 3nm + 4/5nm. AMD has been seeking alternatives because they can't pay the higher price; Google it. They wanted Samsung to make them chips. Apple will always be TSMCs most important customer tho. They will always use TSMCs best process. AMD can't afford to and never will be able to.

AMD is already in decline, happens every time with AMD. Intel and Nvidia are the big players and always come back on top.
AMD is seeking alternatives because TSMC might have output problems and it's never good idea to stick with single manufacturer.

Nvidia couldn't afford TSMC 7nm meaning Ampere desktop cards run hot as Hell.
I know it's hard to accept for an AMD fanboy but reality calls :D Intel outsold AMD on the CPU market in the last 2 consecutive quarters - Intel wins on value AND performance. 12400 and 12600 rapes Zen 3 and made AMD lower prices like crazy. 12700 and 12900 made Ryzen 5950X cost 399 dollars :joy: 50% lower than MSRP :joy:

AMD better wake up, they are losing the GPU market completely and CPU market is going to be tough in the next few years for AMD too.

Intel will probably eat alot of AMDs dGPU marketshare soon.

Nvidia has like 85% dGPU marketshare, AMD; 15% :joy:
And? Zen3 is 18 months old now.

Nvidia has no integrated GPUs, AMD has. In other words, if AMD integrated all their top end GPU's into CPUs, then AMD's discrete GPU share 0%. Who cares? Right. Like I have been saying, market share does not equal quality of products.
What is even more funny is that AMD recently got caught boosting AMD CPUs when AMD GPU is used :joy: I hope Techspot will do a test about this, because benchmarks done with those drivers are useless. Oh well most sites use Intel in their test systems anyway I guess because AMD CPU gimps GPU performance :laughing:
Why? What's wrong with that? Oh yes, AMD is doing it.
 

Usukosej

Posts: 183   +82
Of course. Both mess with numbers. Simple as that. It's just you think it's OK when Intel does that but not OK when AMD does. Clear proof you're trolling.

AMD cares about performance and power consumption. Intel throws power consumption out of window.

Then tell me what Intel CPU has chance against Epyc 7742? There is none. And since most AMD's desktop CPUs use same chiplets as Epyc does, that proves AMD concentrates on server market.

Intel has better market share, true. But, looking at products Intel has no chance. People are just stupid to buy Intel. If AVX performance is important, why most supercomputers have huge amount of GPUs? Yeah, Intel's server share is declining fast for reasons.

Today's games are less depending on single thread performance than before. Howeveryou already mentioned Cyberpunk that is old game already, development started 2012. Very bad example of modern game.

Alder Lake has good multi thread performance because it has moar cores and high power consumption too. Not too complicated.

Where are Alder Lake server chips? Even Intel considers it's way too hot. Like you said, server market is most profitable and Intel has no chance there. And then you say AMD architecture is inferior. Trolling at it's finest 🤦‍♂️

AMD is seeking alternatives because TSMC might have output problems and it's never good idea to stick with single manufacturer.

Nvidia couldn't afford TSMC 7nm meaning Ampere desktop cards run hot as Hell.

And? Zen3 is 18 months old now.

Nvidia has no integrated GPUs, AMD has. In other words, if AMD integrated all their top end GPU's into CPUs, then AMD's discrete GPU share 0%. Who cares? Right. Like I have been saying, market share does not equal quality of products.

Why? What's wrong with that? Oh yes, AMD is doing it.

Again, core difference is normal on desktop/mobile parts. Different architechture is not. AMD tried to fool customers into thinking they bought something better than they actually did. And they did this numerous times, with all the mobile Ryzen chips.

You are clueless, Nvidia went with Samsung because they knew that TSMC could not deliver, because too many customers for their 7nm already. This is the reason why AMD struggled with delivery of CPUs, GPUs and APUs for a long time and still does to some degree.

Meanwhile Nvidia sold tons of Ampere GPUs. Ampere outsold RDNA2 with ease. RDNA2 is barely present on Steam HW Survey 1½ years after release 🤣 Nvidia sold millions and millions of chips while AMD was waiting for the next RNDA2 shipment from TSMC 🤣

Nvidia could easily afford 7nm TSMC :joy: Nvidia has more capital than AMD. They simply were smarter and saw the huge bottleneck long before AMD did.

Intel loses marketshare fast? :joy: They lost like 5% in 5 years and still dominates the enterprise market completely. 9 out of 10 companies won't even consider using AMD products, because of bad experience/rep/support in the past. Also because of software incompatibility.

Just like Nvidia dominates AMD completely in the enterprise GPU segment.

AMD have lower power consumption because Zen uses much lower clockspeeds and hits a clockspeed wall and this is also why performance is lower than Intels chips too. Tons of games and programs want high clockspeed. Most do actually. This is the reason why Alder Lake destroys Zen 3 in most realworld stuff.

AMD needs the best node to be able to compete, because they use inferior architecture. Going with Samsung won't help AMD at all, because of inferior arch the performance will be even worse. Samsung is less advanced than TSMC.

AMD will have some hard years going forward. Both Intel and Nvidia is progressing to advanced nodes now, and AMD can't afford to join them.

Nvidia secured tons of 4nm + 5nm TSMC output. AMD did not.
Intel is ready to launch Intel 4 next year. As dense as TSMC 4nm (hence the name). But Intel has secured TSMC 3nm too :laughing:

Both Intel and Nvidia have WAY MORE MONEY than AMD. Meaning they can SECURE NODES and keep AMD away from competing. Very simple. AMD is the small player. Money is limited. Sad but true.
 
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