Nvidia claims a 50 percent framerate uplift in Monster Hunter: World with DLSS

onetheycallEric

TS Addict
Staff member

Nvidia's AI-powered Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS) is in a similar situation to that of ray tracing: limited game support. However, the library of supported games is growing -- slowly, but surely. Capcom has now confirmed its popular RPG Monster Hunter: World will be getting the Nvidia DLSS treatment.

With Capcom adding DLSS support, Nvidia is making the bold claim that DLSS is capable of "boosting performance at 4K by up to 50% in the game’s most demanding moments."

Nvidia alleges that with the addition of DLSS, the previously unobtainable 60 FPS at 4K, with max settings and the high resolution texture pack enabled, is now possible. Nvidia adds that 30 FPS at 4K is more feasible for owners of the RTX 2070 and RTX 2060, thanks to DLSS.

Monster Hunter: World is also getting another DLSS feature with a new sharpness slider. As the name implies, the slider will allow users to adjust the sharpness or softness of images at their discretion.

The Monster Hunter: World update that includes Nvidia DLSS support goes live on July 17. While Nvidia claims DLSS implementation will net gamers a free performance boost, we've noted the upscaling technique can be hit or miss depending on the game.

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dangh

TS Enthusiast
Time to update my PC for this!
Don't bother. DLSS is on par or perhaps even less then a sharpening filter / a simple upscale. You'd be better off using the former or increasing the render scale.
DLSS improves over time - as it learns...
Problem is, it actually doesn't. Except Nvidia slides there is no ai improvements in titles. And anyway it would be easier to teach model separately at development and provide updates than leave it at end user pc.
 
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hahahanoobs

TS Evangelist
Problem is, it actually doesn't. Except Nvidia slides there is no ai improvements in titles. And anyway it would be easier to teach model separately at development and provide updates than leave it at end user pc.
Show me these slides.

Problem is, you have no idea how Deep Learning works. NVIDIA is using supercomputers to analyze the images to improve the technology.
AMD comes up with a little piece of software that is already ported to use with NVIDIA cards.
Did you know AMD's sharpening doesn't work with any DX11 games? Of course not. You don't do any research before you speak.
 
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Evernessince

TS Evangelist
DLSS improves over time - as it learns...
It has improved over the last year but we've no idea if or when it will be better then much less resource intensive sharpening / up scaling. It also has to be trained and implemented on a per game basis. I'm not saying DLSS won't improve over time, I'm just saying it's unlikely it will overcome it's disadvantages. Just my opinion, not at all fact.

That's a lot better than discontinuing a product fanboys raved about 7 months after launch.
#ripradeonvii
Radeon VII was very mediocre for the gaming market but it's still a good value if you are a professional. In fact the Radeon VII should have mostly been bought by pros. Otherwise Nvidia still had the edge in gaming performance for the price at the time of the VII's launch (although at $650 right now it's not bad for either use case).
 
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dangh

TS Enthusiast
Problem is, it actually doesn't. Except Nvidia slides there is no ai improvements in titles. And anyway it would be easier to teach model separately at development and provide updates than leave it at end user pc.
Show me these slides.

Problem is, you have no idea how Deep Learning works. NVIDIA is using supercomputers to analyze the images to improve the technology.
AMD comes up with a little piece of software that is already ported to use with NVIDIA cards.
Did you know AMD's sharpening doesn't work with any DX11 games? Of course not. You don't do any research before you speak.
nice strawman. I didn't say a word on amd. you are very insecure, and probably don't even know a statement from amd on dx11. nevertheless dlss is another gsync. overpriced blurry bs.
 
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hahahanoobs

TS Evangelist
nice strawman. I didn't say a word on amd. you are very insecure, and probably don't even know a statement from amd on dx11. nevertheless dlss is another gsync. overpriced blurry bs.
Didn't say a word about AMD, but has no problems taking shots at NVIDIA anyway. Calls me insecure.

"AMD told us they decided to focus on newer APIs, while DirectX 9 was included because it was easy to do. AMD recognizes that DX11 is the next step and they’ll consider adding that in a future software update if there’s “demand from the community for that feature.”

Because, "it [DX9] was easy to do."
Recognizes DX11 is the next step, but "won't consider it unless there is demand from community"

DLSS needs to work right away, but AMD can take their time with drivers and optimizations....?
Cool story. Tell me more about how awesome AMD is.

Where's Radeon VII btw? Something about AMD killing it off 6 months after launch? Do you think the 65/100 score Techpspot gave it had anything to do with it? hmmm?

https://www.techspot.com/article/1873-radeon-image-sharpening-vs-nvidia-dlss/
 

PetrolHead

TS Booster
DLSS needs to work right away, but AMD can take their time with drivers and optimizations....?
Complaining about the missing DX11 support in AMD's upscaling solution at launch is a bit disingenuous. RTX cards have been available for about a year and only a handful of games support DLSS at all. AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening would support a wider range of games even if it only worked with Vulkan. And that's the big issue with DLSS: the fact that it needs to be implemented in each game separately by the developers. Since a relatively simple sharpening algorithm can (at least for now) give slightly better results without any extra effort from the developers, there's not much incentive to support it. Unless both performance and image quality take a notable leap forward with the next generation of NVIDIA GPUs, giving DLSS an advantage over simpler sharpening algorithms (assuming they don't see a similar leap forward), DLSS support will likely also remain marginal in the coming years.
 

treetops

TS Evangelist
Pretty sure my old SNES emulator had this kinda tech 10+ years ago, without the ai, simple upscale. It made super mario look pretty smooth. With all the crazy features the emulator could actually make my pc bend the knee. Sometimes as noted by techspot upscaling makes the game look to rounded for lack of better word. Blury? But if you tinkered with it, you could find sweet spots combined with all the other options I barely understood. tri binear, super duper sampling, output image processing, buffering Kaio-ken attack x3!!!! etc

Anyways even simple upscaling is a nice little feature if you have overkill fps. If I understand this correctly DLSS just throttles down the scaling quality to keep up your fps when needed?

Can you upscale your resolution with navi cards? I googled it to no avail.
 
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texasrattler

TS Evangelist
DLSS needs to work right away, but AMD can take their time with drivers and optimizations....?
Complaining about the missing DX11 support in AMD's upscaling solution at launch is a bit disingenuous. RTX cards have been available for about a year and only a handful of games support DLSS at all. AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening would support a wider range of games even if it only worked with Vulkan. And that's the big issue with DLSS: the fact that it needs to be implemented in each game separately by the developers. Since a relatively simple sharpening algorithm can (at least for now) give slightly better results without any extra effort from the developers, there's not much incentive to support it. Unless both performance and image quality take a notable leap forward with the next generation of NVIDIA GPUs, giving DLSS an advantage over simpler sharpening algorithms (assuming they don't see a similar leap forward), DLSS support will likely also remain marginal in the coming years.
What, no it's not disingenuous. Come on now. AMD left it out on purpose and claim only will added if demand is there from the community, is that a joke. Not only is demand there, most FREAKING games not only support DX11 but use it the most. DX9 is old and lets be honest who cares. As AMD said they only did it cause it was easy. DX11 is to hard for them and to much money/resource to deal with.
DX12, is obviously easier(or they got paid to make it from Pubs) than DX11 for some reason. What's funny is that not a lot of games use DX12 and those that do, have way more problems than DX11.

AMD progress, 2 steps forwards, one giant step backwards. You'd think they don't have time for messing up but that's what they are most famous for. It's why Intel and Nvidia have been smacking them around for years. They cause their own problems.
 
DLSS needs to work right away, but AMD can take their time with drivers and optimizations....?
Complaining about the missing DX11 support in AMD's upscaling solution at launch is a bit disingenuous. RTX cards have been available for about a year and only a handful of games support DLSS at all. AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening would support a wider range of games even if it only worked with Vulkan. And that's the big issue with DLSS: the fact that it needs to be implemented in each game separately by the developers. Since a relatively simple sharpening algorithm can (at least for now) give slightly better results without any extra effort from the developers, there's not much incentive to support it. Unless both performance and image quality take a notable leap forward with the next generation of NVIDIA GPUs, giving DLSS an advantage over simpler sharpening algorithms (assuming they don't see a similar leap forward), DLSS support will likely also remain marginal in the coming years.
What, no it's not disingenuous. Come on now. AMD left it out on purpose and claim only will added if demand is there from the community, is that a joke. Not only is demand there, most FREAKING games not only support DX11 but use it the most. DX9 is old and lets be honest who cares. As AMD said they only did it cause it was easy. DX11 is to hard for them and to much money/resource to deal with.
DX12, is obviously easier(or they got paid to make it from Pubs) than DX11 for some reason. What's funny is that not a lot of games use DX12 and those that do, have way more problems than DX11.

AMD progress, 2 steps forwards, one giant step backwards. You'd think they don't have time for messing up but that's what they are most famous for. It's why Intel and Nvidia have been smacking them around for years. They cause their own problems.
Based on Tim's analysis, AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening is doing the smacking on Nvidia's DLSS. His words:

"Our take is RIS delivers what DLSS couldn't: a simple, low performance cost technique that makes resolution downsampling viable."

It's not available for all games, just like DLSS. The simple answer here is that AMD got it right and Nvidia still hasn't.

Maybe DLSS will get better over time, like the "Fine Wine" BS that AMD people spout. Fine wine shouldn't happen, it should be actually good out of the box, not a year or two later. And the same goes for DLSS and RTX. Everyone who didn't get good performance right out of the box paid too much and got screwed.
 

texasrattler

TS Evangelist
Based on Tim's analysis, AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening is doing the smacking on Nvidia's DLSS. His words:

"Our take is RIS delivers what DLSS couldn't: a simple, low performance cost technique that makes resolution downsampling viable."

It's not available for all games, just like DLSS. The simple answer here is that AMD got it right and Nvidia still hasn't.

Maybe DLSS will get better over time, like the "Fine Wine" BS that AMD people spout. Fine wine shouldn't happen, it should be actually good out of the box, not a year or two later. And the same goes for DLSS and RTX. Everyone who didn't get good performance right out of the box paid too much and got screwed.
Umm, doesn't wine age better over time though?yep So DLSS may age great and actually be better over time but isn't that what DLSS designed to do to begin with?yep

AMDs sharpening, isn't ground breaking to begin with. Games could do that if they choose to, they just don't.

AMD has been smacked around by Intel and Nvidia for years, they aren't doing any smacking. They may get that hand warmed up but that's only cause itll end up smacking them in the face.

Anyone who falls for or takes a chance on any new tech should never feel they got screwed. It's your fault you dove head first in the poll with no water, don't cry about it cause you listened to the crowd/hype. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. People keep falling for things before they even realize that they fell for it.

I have no issue over the RTX cards and I am fully aware of their tech. I don't worry about all of those, I only care about how the card performs naturally. Yes you may end up paying for that card cause of the new tech, just how it goes. Nothing is free in this world.
 
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techguy72

TS Rookie
Time to update my PC for this!
Don't bother. DLSS is on par or perhaps even less then a sharpening filter / a simple upscale. You'd be better off using the former or increasing the render scale.
Incorrect. You don't seem to understand how DLSS works at all. It's actually an extremely complex algorithm that upscales using actual data generated from a full 4K render. It's totally different from "simple" upscaling as you ignorantly put it.
 

hahahanoobs

TS Evangelist
Based on Tim's analysis, AMD's Radeon Image Sharpening is doing the smacking on Nvidia's DLSS. His words:

"Our take is RIS delivers what DLSS couldn't: a simple, low performance cost technique that makes resolution downsampling viable."

It's not available for all games, just like DLSS. The simple answer here is that AMD got it right and Nvidia still hasn't.

Maybe DLSS will get better over time, like the "Fine Wine" BS that AMD people spout. Fine wine shouldn't happen, it should be actually good out of the box, not a year or two later. And the same goes for DLSS and RTX. Everyone who didn't get good performance right out of the box paid too much and got screwed.
Again, you fail to comprehend the scope of Deep Learning. It can be explained in the description of the technology and a couple YouTube videos, but I get it, you're impatient and can't be bothered. It's easier to just say it sucks, because it's not better than a little piece of software AMD cooked up on a weekend.
 

hahahanoobs

TS Evangelist
What, no it's not disingenuous. Come on now. AMD left it out on purpose and claim only will added if demand is there from the community, is that a joke. Not only is demand there, most FREAKING games not only support DX11 but use it the most. DX9 is old and lets be honest who cares. As AMD said they only did it cause it was easy. DX11 is to hard for them and to much money/resource to deal with.
DX12, is obviously easier(or they got paid to make it from Pubs) than DX11 for some reason. What's funny is that not a lot of games use DX12 and those that do, have way more problems than DX11.

AMD progress, 2 steps forwards, one giant step backwards. You'd think they don't have time for messing up but that's what they are most famous for. It's why Intel and Nvidia have been smacking them around for years. They cause their own problems.
Not disingenuous, just lazy. It's all in his quote.
"we know it's the next step, BUT..."
"we need to hear it from the community"

AMD sucks at software. They always have.
 
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Evernessince

TS Evangelist
Incorrect. You don't seem to understand how DLSS works at all. It's actually an extremely complex algorithm that upscales using actual data generated from a full 4K render. It's totally different from "simple" upscaling as you ignorantly put it.
I never called DLSS "simple". The following sentence is pretty clear

"DLSS is on par or perhaps even less then a sharpening filter / a simple upscale"

Cut the petty insults. Hardware unboxed ran a video on this very subject and both Tim and Steve publish a good chunk of the review articles here on TechSpot


I hope you come back with a comment that doesn't broach insults before facts.
 

PetrolHead

TS Booster
What, no it's not disingenuous. Come on now. AMD left it out on purpose and claim only will added if demand is there from the community, is that a joke. Not only is demand there, most FREAKING games not only support DX11 but use it the most. DX9 is old and lets be honest who cares. As AMD said they only did it cause it was easy. DX11 is to hard for them and to much money/resource to deal with.
DX12, is obviously easier(or they got paid to make it from Pubs) than DX11 for some reason. What's funny is that not a lot of games use DX12 and those that do, have way more problems than DX11.
It's disingenuous since AMD's solution is compatible with a lot of games as is, whereas DLSS is currently more a marketing gimmick than a feature you can use. Sure, DX11 support would be nice and will likely be added at some point, but consider these points:

-4K gaming is not even close to being mainstream, so the amount of people that have potential use for any upscaling solution is small in comparison.
-The 5700 and 5700XT are not really aimed at 4K gaming, even with the upscaling solution.
-Many games, especially new ones, support several APIs and while DX11 is sometimes slightly faster than DX12, I don't recall any recent implementation of DX12 that would actually be broken.
-Older games that do not support DX12 may be light enough for 5700 and 5700XT to run them at 4K without upscaling trickery. DX9 titles on the other hand may run relatively poorly (considering what they're capable of) on current GPUs, since GPU architectures have evolved quite a bit since DX9 was relevant, so upscaling may provide better performance in some fringe(?) cases.
-While DX11 has proved to be quite persistent and usable, it's on its way out. It'll probably take several years still, but DX12 and Vulkan are going to increase their foothold in the coming years.

In short, AMD's approach is understandable. Also, AMD has been upfront about DX11 not being supported due to limited resources, so they've delivered what they've promised. This is not something you can say about NVIDIA and their RTX card features.
 
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Nobina

TS Evangelist
What's with Nvidia lately? Anything they make "takes time" to become not absolutely ****. Imagine buying a product that promises you it's gonna be good some day. Buying into it is about as intelligent as pre-ordering a game.