Gastec
Posts: 587 +309
The RTX 5000 series will definitely be even more expensive, most likely power-hogs and loaded with spyware at the hardware level.
Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Super Review
- Thread starter Steve
- Start date
Gastec
Posts: 587 +309
I've also been waiting for 1 year + 9, that's why I'm still gaming hard with a GTX 670. Not how the game is meant to be played!
Nintenboy01
Posts: 331 +225
Perhaps the bigger 64MB L2 cache was vital after all, but let's see if subsequent drivers or VBIOS updates improve things.
Maybe. Those people would be better off just buying the 4090 from the beginning, though.
Update (Jan 25): After more extensive testing of the MSI graphics card, updated firmware and comparing to other RTX 4070 Ti Super models, our latest findings show at most a 9% increase in performance in one title at a specific resolution (Hogwarts Legacy), with most titles showing a less significant difference. We have recorded an average gaming performance uplift of 2% at 1440p and 3% at 4K.
Because this is a minor difference, our conclusions for the remainder of this review remain the same as the cost per frame and overall value brought by the 4070 Ti Super is about the same as before.
Given this minimal impact observed in testing, we have kept the original data for this review, as a ~2-3% difference is unlikely to significantly alter the overall findings. However, we plan to update all the RTX 4070 Ti Super data in our upcoming RTX 4080 Super review next week.
Because this is a minor difference, our conclusions for the remainder of this review remain the same as the cost per frame and overall value brought by the 4070 Ti Super is about the same as before.
Given this minimal impact observed in testing, we have kept the original data for this review, as a ~2-3% difference is unlikely to significantly alter the overall findings. However, we plan to update all the RTX 4070 Ti Super data in our upcoming RTX 4080 Super review next week.
Nvidia "CONTACTED YOU" because the VENTUS was not performing as well as the TUF...
Why did you agreed to Nvidia request again? Aren't you the ones who told Nvidia push back with the whole Editorial Narrative angle in the past?
The results are still valid, some people will end up with a VENTUS.
You are reviewing AIBs models. You can't predict disparity between the different models.
I don't see how the difference between the TUF and the VENTUS is your problem.
If Nvidia wanted to have a reference, they should have made a Founder Edition, but they didn't. They only have themselves to blame.
Nvidia sent the MSI Ventus to many reviewers... so they let us know.
PS: "Shouting" is against our community rules and terms of use.
I see your point, but counterpoint: going much larger then a 4090 isnt really feasible. Who cares if it is an 80 class or 90 class or a 69420 class? Only the 2080ti or legendary GTX 280 are significantly bigger then a 4090.
The 4090 would have been a $1000 card but the scalpers during the pandemic showed nVidia that people would spend more for graphics cards so nVidia became the scalpers for the 40 series. They did it to the point that board partners can't make money anymore. EVGA quit and it looks like zotac is going to quit the GPU business next.
I'm a capitalist so for the most part, I'm in favor of charging "what the market will bare." But the thing is, nVidia is ripping everyone off with the 40 series. The super series cards are garbage. I thought the 4070ti super was gonna be knock out but it's $100 over MSRP and it's also sold out basically everywhere.
Because people are willing to put up with nVidia's bullshit, AMD can over charge for their cards. Noone is holding either GPU maker accountable for their BS right now and we're all paying absurd prices because of it. The 7900xt isn't going to stay at 710 for long because nVidia isn't releasing a competitive product. The 7900xt is going to go back up to $750-800 a card until RDNA4 is released
The idea that we're stuck with literal mobile GPUs being sold as desktop GPUs in the mainstream is absurd.
Devil's advocate: adjusted for inflation the 8800 ultra was a $1100 card, and that was far less technically complicated then a 4090 is. The 4090 occupies the space previously led by dual GPU cards, which commonly were $1000+, which nobody seemed to have an issue with back in the day. Sure, part of this is greed, but part of this is rapidly rising prices globally.
Nvidia's margins ARE rising, yes, up to 45% for 2023. But at the same time, how much of that is $45000 AI GPUs being sold to huge corporations skewing said margin?
NVIDIA Operating Margin 2010-2025 | NVDA
Current and historical operating margin for NVIDIA (NVDA) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for NVIDIA as of January 31, 2025 is <strong>54.34%</strong>.
www.macrotrends.net
Dont forget the ongoing trade wars with china, which are raising GPU prices further, among other things. The days of high end 102 class GPUs being $500 is long gone and buried, much like 8GB mid range GPUs.
As for EVGA, while nvidia does deserve some blame, so does EVGA. They mismanaged themselves into the ground and repeatedly bought into a generation heavily just before the next gen came out, which most would say was a very dumb move. I've yet to hear about these zotac rumors, but it's telling that none of these AIBs will make AMD cards, despite nvidia being so evil.
See, I dont see how $750 for a 7900xt is a bad value. That's the price it should have been from the start.
That's just AMD doing AMD things. They do NOT care about the lower class. Arguably nobody does when demand outstrips supply, but ever since ryzen took off AMD has totally forgotten about budget builders. Look at the price of their CPUs.
8800 ultra was not an 1100 cardDevil's advocate: adjusted for inflation the 8800 ultra was a $1100 card, and that was far less technically complicated then a 4090 is. The 4090 occupies the space previously led by dual GPU cards, which commonly were $1000+, which nobody seemed to have an issue with back in the day. Sure, part of this is greed, but part of this is rapidly rising prices globally.
Nvidia's margins ARE rising, yes, up to 45% for 2023. But at the same time, how much of that is $45000 AI GPUs being sold to huge corporations skewing said margin?
NVIDIA Operating Margin 2010-2025 | NVDA
Current and historical operating margin for NVIDIA (NVDA) over the last 10 years. The current operating profit margin for NVIDIA as of January 31, 2025 is <strong>54.34%</strong>.
Dont forget the ongoing trade wars with china, which are raising GPU prices further, among other things. The days of high end 102 class GPUs being $500 is long gone and buried, much like 8GB mid range GPUs.
As for EVGA, while nvidia does deserve some blame, so does EVGA. They mismanaged themselves into the ground and repeatedly bought into a generation heavily just before the next gen came out, which most would say was a very dumb move. I've yet to hear about these zotac rumors, but it's telling that none of these AIBs will make AMD cards, despite nvidia being so evil.
See, I dont see how $750 for a 7900xt is a bad value. That's the price it should have been from the start.
That's just AMD doing AMD things. They do NOT care about the lower class. Arguably nobody does when demand outstrips supply, but ever since ryzen took off AMD has totally forgotten about budget builders. Look at the price of their CPUs.
Adjusted for inflation, yes it was. $830 in 2007. Dont know about you, but salaries in 2007 were far lower then they are today. Inflation is a thing.
So you're saying it identifies as an $1100 card? I'm tired of hearing about I fraction because prices fluctuate over time and at different rates and for different reasons. In 2020 we doubled the amount of money in circulation so wouldn't that make it a $1660 card? And I make 5 times what I did in 2004 doing the same job
I'm saying the people crying about cards costing $1000+ today are either intentionally or accidentally ignorant of reality. Same for people who whine about how GPUs used to cost $500, not understanding tesla-fermi era was influenced by the 2nd worst financial crisis in recent history and that before then $500 was not halo tier.
And you are SO CLOSE to understanding why the 4090 is $2400. Yes, our money supply doubled in the last 4 years. Wages have risen dramatically in the last 4 years. Transportation costs have exploded. So if that means prices double, what was the 2080ti MSRP again? Wasnt it $1100? So then that would mean the new halo GPU would be......
The 4090 is a $2400 card because nVidia artificially limited supply to increase profit margins. nVidia is no longer making 4090 chips.
Also, the federal reserve did double the money supply in 2020 alone.
transportation costs are actually down. They're 1/3rd of what they were of their peak in 2021. A spot on a container ship was $25,000 but now it costs between 5-7000 to ship a cargo container. Saudi Arabia has been trying to increase fuel prices but Russias war with Ukraine is having the opposite effect.
Because AMD had financial troubles around 2008 onwards. AMD had to choose either CPU or GPU. Since market decided to buy Nvidia GPUs even when AMD had clearly better products at that time, decision was easy.
AMD does not even try to "catch up" since people will buy Nvidia anyway. With this generation AMD could have easily gained performance crown*, they just decided it was not worth it. AMD doesn't care but why should they since market doesn't care either?
*AMD GPU is around half size vs Nvidia and nearly as fast using same manufacturing tech. If AMD wanted to make biggest GPU that manufacturing tech easily allows, Nvidia would have had no chance.
Gastec
Posts: 587 +309
Charging "what the market will bare" is a concept pertaining more to feudalism, not capitalism. Charge the serfs and the vassals until they revolt, start revolutions, tumble empires.
Gastec
Posts: 587 +309
Say you went from a $1000/month salary in 2004. Now, in 2024 you have $5000/month salary. May I ask who and why gives you now 5 times the money your made in 2004, if you are doing the same job? And why are you telling us that you have so much money?
I try to avoid talking about my money but the more I talk about how dumb these prices are the more people accuse me of being poor. Also, I made a lot more than $1000/m in 2004. I actually have signed an NDA so I can't tell you exactly who I work for but I do do commercial construction on a national level. It hasn't been the same employeer so maybe that was a bit of a stretch, but it is the same trade. So investing 20 years of my life into studying and doing masonry had increased what I do and what I can charge. Learning to operate equipment used in masonry has contributed to that pay raise.
That's a myth. When AMD (or ATI) made better cards, they were selling like hotcakes. You realize the marketshare at somepoint was 45-55 right?
Stop with the excuses, AMD has been lagging behind nvidia for like almost a decade, and that's why they are not selling. You realize that for like what, 5-6 years they only had low / midrange options? 2015 to 2020, besides the limited edition (and kinda crappy) radeon VII, they didn't have any cards besides the RX 480 / 580s and the 5700xt. That's 5 years with no high midrange or top end products. Like what do you expect?
The problem with AMD is, the more people buy AMD, the less likely they are to buy AMD again. It's full of half baked features, problematic drivers and stuff. Having a full AMD laptop for 6 months, I became an expert on wiping and installing drivers, which driver version works with what games and which driver version I need for a specific feature to work as intended. My freaking taskbar is just full with "AMD cleaning utility", some driver version from september of 2022 (the only ones that properly turn off the dGPU), some driver versions from 2023 (in order to play new games without mouse stuttering). It's an absolute horror show.
Myth? Because around 2009 when Nvidia had GTX480 against AMD, they still had much larger market share. If AMD couldn't get even 50% wirh much better products, then what do you expect with equal products? Does not sound sold like hotcakes to me.
Why do you even expect AMD could have made better products, because Zen-development took all resources? Like said, AMD had to choose: focus either on CPU or GPU development. AMD made right choice.
Again, now when AMD had chance to take performance crown, they passed opportunity. Because they are stupid? Looking share price they have done something right.
Gastec
Posts: 587 +309
Unreal!
They’ve only got limited resources to compete, so it all boils down to priorities. Given that they made good progress chipping away Intel’s market share over the years, it makes sense they continue doing so with the resources they have. GPU is clearly secondary, and they are just keeping it going for their custom SOC business. But with AI GPUs becoming so lucrative, it is possible they may put more focus on their GPU business. Even so, they still won’t be able to keep up with Nvidia. At least not in the near future.
Similar threads
- Locked
Latest posts
-
Doom: The Dark Ages discs contain almost no data, require full game downloads- hahahanoobs replied
-
Samsung's Odyssey OLED G6 is the world's first 500Hz OLED gaming monitor- Daniel Sims replied
