Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Ryzen 5 7600X: 50+ Game Benchmark
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AIC1Drew
Posts: 74 +59
I'm surprised no comments had mentioned 7xxxX3Ds until I saw your comment. That's personally the benchmarks I'm waiting for. And this is coming from an Intel i7-4790K....its been a great run.
I don't think it's very common a for a family to have up to 4 modern desktop computers, in fact a lot of households don't even have a desktop now. The easy upgradeability of AM4 mostly applies to edge cases.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
It's true. Now that I've dropped an R7-5800X3D into my X570 board, I don't expect to do any upgrading for at least the next five years and that includes my RX 6800 XT.
MarcusNumb
Posts: 113 +187
Well I'm thinking about final upgrade for my 3600x. I'm using a 3070ti and I'm wondering between a 5700x or 5800x3d, can you give me some advice ? Notice that here in Spain, the 5700x costs 235euros and the 5800X3D costs 400euros. My Mainboard is Msi tomahawk wifi x570 so for the VRM I don't have problems for any of those CPUs. I'm gaming at 1080p.
We have 5 in our family. All but one on AM4, and she'll be getting an upgrade next birthday. Nice thing is when I get an upgrade, my old stuff trickles down so others get upgrades. I'm on 5800x3d/3090 now (and probably at least until Zen5). Wife is lowest on the totem pole (she doesn't game), so she's on a 1700x.
You aren't wrong though, many households now just use phones or tablets and maybe a laptop. My situation was years in the making, leveraged stimulus payments and mining with the GPUs on the side, and unusual. Most parents would just buy an XBox and call it a day.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
Open-world games ARE mainstream GPU-heavy games. Titles like Tomb Raider, Uncharted, Far Cry, AC:Odyssey, AC: Valhalla, The Witcher 3, God of War and who knows how many more are definitely considered to be mainstream GPU-heavy games. What kind of games were you referring to? I know that it doesn't do much in CS:GO or a few other titles but from what I've seen, it makes a BIG difference far more often than not.
It's true that the CPU isn't the most important thing when gaming but when one looks at the R7-5800X3D, it has to do with longevity. With my R7-5800X3D, my PC will be viable for gaming for a long time into the future, far longer than any other AM4 CPU. Depending on the effect that the cache has on future games (and the trend seems to be that it's exactly what future games will want), it could even outlast all current AM5 and LGA 1700 offerings.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
Well, it actually depends completely on you. If you can afford the 400 €, I would definitely recommend that you get the R7-5800X3D. Most performance will be about the same as the R7-5700X but let's be honest here, for general Windows tasks, even an R3-1300X is plenty fast enough. It's the gaming that will matter most and the R7-5800X3D will most likely extend the life of your AM4 platform for years longer than the R7-5700X will if gaming is the most hardware-intensive thing that you do.
At the same time, if you can't afford the 400 €, the R7-5700X will still be good for quite some time but, like before, if gaming is the most hardware-intensive thing that you do on your PC, I would probably recommend that you get an R5-5600 or R5-5600. Here's why:
As you can see, compared to the R7-5700X, the R5-5600 is less than 4% slower. Eight cores don't really do much in gaming so there's no point in paying extra for the two cores you won't use. I had an R7-5700X which I only bought because it was on sale for the same price as an R5-5600X and the R7-5800X3D was sold out everywhere at the time. Depending on which one you choose, it could result in significant savings and keep in mind that the R5-5600 comes with a CPU cooler while the R7 CPUs don't:
AMD Ryzen 5 5600 3.5GHz Box - 160 € (Spain Price)
Everything else that I had previously posted past this point was a result of me not being able to read.
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MarcusNumb
Posts: 113 +187
Thank you very much for a very detailed advice. The only misunderstanding here is that I'm using a MSI Gaming X trio 3070ti, not a 1070ti. Following your advice, it seems like my 3600x is bottlenecking my 3070ti ? I'm not quite used to detecting bottleneck, I often see my GPU above 90% and my CPU only around 40 50% when gaming.Well, it actually depends completely on you. If you can afford the 400 €, I would definitely recommend that you get the R7-5800X3D. Most performance will be about the same as the R7-5700X but let's be honest here, for general Windows tasks, even an R3-1300X is plenty fast enough. It's the gaming that will matter most and the R7-5800X3D will most likely extend the life of your AM4 platform for years longer than the R7-5700X will if gaming is the most hardware-intensive thing that you do.
At the same time, if you can't afford the 400 €, the R7-5700X will still be good for quite some time but, like before, if gaming is the most hardware-intensive thing that you do on your PC, I would probably recommend that you get an R5-5600 or R5-5600. Here's why:
As you can see, compared to the R7-5700X, the R5-5600 is less than 4% slower. Eight cores don't really do much in gaming so there's no point in paying extra for the two cores you won't use. I had an R7-5700X which I only bought because it was on sale for the same price as an R5-5600X and the R7-5800X3D was sold out everywhere at the time. Depending on which one you choose, it could result in significant savings and keep in mind that the R5-5600 comes with a CPU cooler while the R7 CPUs don't:
AMD Ryzen 5 5600 3.5GHz Box - 160 € (Spain Price)
There is a much bigger problem than you're seeing though. See, your R5-3600X isn't what I would upgrade first because it's still a very capable gaming CPU today. You'd be looking at only around a 20% uplift between an R5-3600X and both the R5-5600 (or 24% for the R7-5700X).
It's not nothing but it's definitely not what you should do first. What you should do first is change your video card because believe me, that GTX 1070 Ti is bottlenecking your R5-3600X badly. I know this because my RX 5700 XT even bottlenecks my R5-3600X in my secondary build and it's 20% faster than the GTX 1070 Ti.
If I were you, the RX 6650 XT which is a whopping 41% faster than your GTX 1070 Ti is what I'd be looking to spend ~400 € on if I were you:
MSI AMD Radeon RX 6650 XT GAMING X 8GB GDDR6 - 440 € (Spain Price)
The difference that you'd experience when gaming would be HUGE if you changed the video card first. At this level, there's no point in getting nVidia because they're too weak at this price point for things like RT, nVenc or CUDA to matter. The RTX 3060 Ti costs 564 € despite the fact that the 440 € RX 6650 XT is only 10% slower. You'd be paying 49% more money for a 10% increase in gaming. Right now, the RX 6650 XT is definitely the best value around for you and would be a far better buy than any CPU.
AM4 CPUs aren't going away anytime soon do get the new card and you'll get an immediate and noticeable gaming performance increase because the card will be a much better match for your R5-3600X. If you must get a new CPU, get the R7-5800X3D if you can afford it and get the R55600 if you can't. Do not get the R7-5700X as I believe that it would be a waste of money for a gamer.
takaozo
Posts: 593 +945
Not 100% accurate but you will get the picture.
https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator/result/0Um19b/3/graphic-card-intense-tasks/2560x1440/
From my experience 50% CPU utilization in games, with HT/SMT enabled is a bottleneck.
Most games use only real cores.
Had the same issue with a 2060 and a i7 4790. Changed to a R5 5600x and now only 10-35% usage in games like Witcher 3, PUBG, God of war or Shadow of tomb raider.
Also 1% low improved at 1440p.
I chose the 5600x because 5800x3d was double the price but only 8-9% faster on average.
Youtube for 5600x vs 5800x3d 1440p.
or check TPU chart for 1440p with a 3080.
MaxSmarties
Posts: 550 +313
In 5 years, AM5 will be dead too, so you'll need to change motherboard anyway. Futureproofness is a valid point only for people upgrading every 1-2 years, which is not really a smart move.
MaxSmarties
Posts: 550 +313
Exactly. Who will keep an expensive B650 , 3 years from now, with very little PCIE5 support, for instance ? Future proof is a marketing gimmick. When you upgrade the CPU, you upgrade the motherboard too, and sometimes also the RAM.
MaxSmarties
Posts: 550 +313
Utterly nonsense. Speaking about Raptor Lake is almost as speaking about Zen 3 on AM4: the last generation on the platform. Even better, because LGA1700 will see another upgrade with "Raptor Lake refresh" next year. LGA1700 platform will last until 2024, from 2021, so not so much different from AM5. AM4 was a little bit better, for sure, but AMD has changed in the meanwhile, trying now to milk customers not less than Intel.
The only reason to thanks AMD is because they forced Intel in a competitive path, and now a 13700K would have been a much better choice than your 7700X.
MaxSmarties
Posts: 550 +313
At 1080P your 3600X is definitely holding back your 3070Ti. How much it depends on the game, but I would think about an upgrade soon. Even a 5600X will be better.
Ryzen 3600X wasn't a great cpu for 1080P gaming since the beginning...
takaozo
Posts: 593 +945
Only if you don't plan to upgrade GPU to something better then 3080. The 5600x will encounter the same issues with more powerful cards.
I know I wont buy something better than a 3080 on this build. It's good enough for me so why spend more?
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Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
No, I completely read it wrong. Please completely disregard my words about the video card. I don't know why but I read 1070 Ti, not 3070 Ti. The R7-5800X3D is what you should get if you can afford it and the R5-5600 is what you should get if you can't afford the R7-5800X3D.
I need to get something as well, better glasses!
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
I'm afraid you chose the wrong chart. That chart is at 1440p and at higher resolutions, the 5800X3D will appear closer than it actually is because many of those games will have been affected by the GPU. If you want to see the real difference between gaming CPUs, you need to look at 720p or 1080p because CPU gaming performance isn't affected by resolution. Sure, few people who buy the 5800X3D will game at those low resolutions, but it gives you a much better idea of how many draw calls per second that a CPU is capable of instead of how many FPS the card can do at the higher resolution.Not 100% accurate but you will get the picture.
https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator/result/0Um19b/3/graphic-card-intense-tasks/2560x1440/
From my experience 50% CPU utilization in games, with HT/SMT enabled is a bottleneck.
Most games use only real cores.
Had the same issue with a 2060 and a i7 4790. Changed to a R5 5600x and now only 10-35% usage in games like Witcher 3, PUBG, God of war or Shadow of tomb raider.
Also 1% low improved at 1440p.
I chose the 5600x because 5800x3d was double the price but only 8-9% faster on average.
Youtube for 5600x vs 5800x3d 1440p.
or check TPU chart for 1440p with a 3080.
So sure, at 1440p TechPowerUp shows a performance increase of only 8% at 1440p but drop that resolution to 720p and that uplift increases to 12%, 50% more than at 1440p:
The source can also matter a lot. Now, while TechPowerUp shows a 12% performance advantage over the R7-5800X at 720p, Techspot shows an uplift of 25 at 1080p, more than double what TechPowerUp shows at 720p:
Tom's Hardware shows an uplift of 31% at 1080p:
Guru3D shows a 21% performance uplift over the 5800X and that includes Witcher III which is an outlier at 1%. If you remove that from its list of 5 games, the average uplift increases dramatically to 30% so it's very easy for these tests to be meaningless because there just aren't enough games involved.
One thing I came across which puzzled the hell out of me was the difference in results between Techspot and TechPowerUp in Cyberpunk 2077. At 1080p, TechPowerUp shows a performance uplift of only 0.03%
while Techspot shows an uplift of 15%.
At 720p, the difference on TechPowerUp increases dramatically to 9%:
I was initially puzzled by TechPowerUp's numbers because they were completely inconsistent with Techspot, Tom's Hardware and Guru3D. Then I looked closer and saw the reason.
Look at the video cards used:
TECHSPOT - RTX 3090 Ti
TOM'S HARDWARE - RTX 3090
TECHPOWERUP - RTX 3080 <- This is why the differences are smaller.
(Guru3D also used an RTX 3090)
This means that the R7-5800X3D is SO FAST that it even at a lowly setting like 720p, a very potent video card like the RTX 3080 still bottlenecks it! I know that it's bottlenecking at 720p because TechPowerUp's performance difference at 720p is only 9%, much smaller than Techspot's performance difference 15% and that's at 1080p! This means that my R7-5800X3D will easily out-live my RX 6800 XT which is by no means a weak card, it's the rival of the RTX 3080! This also means that the 1440p chart that you posted is so bottlenecked by the RTX 3080 that it's completely useless for gauging CPU gaming performance.
Then there's the result from the article from which this thread sprung:
It's only 4% slower overall than the R5-7600X despite using DDR4 instead of DDR5 and the older AM4 platform. Take away the performance advantage associated with DDR5 and we're talking at least parity with Zen 4. Keeping in mind that the standard Zen 3 CPUs will still be viable gaming CPUs years from now (just like the R5-3600X still is), it's pretty clear that the R7-5800X3D could very well allow a gamer to skip the AM5 platform altogether.
Now sure, you won't get anything more expensive than an RTX 3080 right now, but you'll be able to upgrade your video card at least twice in the coming years (unless you buy halo cards) without really worrying about a CPU bottleneck in gaming. It's just less money you'll have to spend to get the most out of your system.
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takaozo
Posts: 593 +945
Finally someone who gather data from multiple sources, can understand the data and makes his own opinion on something.
All reviewers having different test bench and also games settings. Just look here what Steve does with games at mid settings.....
Data can be manipulated at reviewer pleasure with those averages, adding or removing some titles or changing settings . The data it's there just don't read the " reviewer conclusion", use the data to form yours.
This is why I look at GPU-CPU combination when testing. The 5600x becomes a bottleneck for anything above a 3080 performance. So you can't compare a limited CPU from a hi perf GPU with another CPU that don't have this issue with that specific GPU.
All reviewers having different test bench and also games settings. Just look here what Steve does with games at mid settings.....
Data can be manipulated at reviewer pleasure with those averages, adding or removing some titles or changing settings . The data it's there just don't read the " reviewer conclusion", use the data to form yours.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
It's really the only way to do it because there are so many games, so many settings and so many different approaches. In this case, I saw that chart you posted (and kudos to you for doing so because that's the best way) and I was initially stunned because the difference it showed wasn't remotely enough for the R7-5800X3D to get all of the praise that it has received. So, I went back to where I saw it being praised and it took a bit of sleuthing to figure it out. It took over 20 minutes for me to notice the video card difference.
Sometimes they sneak things in there without even intending to.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
Wow, a Devil's Canyon! I didn't think that there were any still left. Yeah, you really DID have a great run!
veLa
Posts: 1,191 +871
I upgraded to a 5900X from my 2700X. You know why? Because I already had AM4 motherboards and several kits of DDR4 memory. Spending the extra on an AM5 motherboard and DDR5 memory just wasn't worth it to me.
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NeoMorpheus
Posts: 1,502 +3,255
A couple of points “omitted “ in the comments:
1- 7600x includes AVX-512 which already provides a boost over the 5800x3d on supported programs, like the PS3 emulator RPCS 3.
2- For the ones ignoring the benefits of platform longevity, its ok to disagree but you are wrong in the fact that it does offers valid benefits.
3- Funny how intel Haswell cpu are praised for their longevity instead of pointing out that intel simply stopped moving the performance bar but were happy in charging for newer “faster” cpus, until Ryzen came out.
4- Once again, another lovely article that somehow ignores AMD gpus, but we know, only nvidia makes gpus.
It wouldn’t hurt in saying “RTX 3070 or RX6800XT” instead.
Lastly, this is a good comparison for many that want to jump to AM5, but the ridiculous prices on those mobos will give anyone pause. I personally would consider the 5800x3d over the 7600x to replace my 5600x just so I dont have to spend that much money to upgrade.
1- 7600x includes AVX-512 which already provides a boost over the 5800x3d on supported programs, like the PS3 emulator RPCS 3.
2- For the ones ignoring the benefits of platform longevity, its ok to disagree but you are wrong in the fact that it does offers valid benefits.
3- Funny how intel Haswell cpu are praised for their longevity instead of pointing out that intel simply stopped moving the performance bar but were happy in charging for newer “faster” cpus, until Ryzen came out.
4- Once again, another lovely article that somehow ignores AMD gpus, but we know, only nvidia makes gpus.
It wouldn’t hurt in saying “RTX 3070 or RX6800XT” instead.
Lastly, this is a good comparison for many that want to jump to AM5, but the ridiculous prices on those mobos will give anyone pause. I personally would consider the 5800x3d over the 7600x to replace my 5600x just so I dont have to spend that much money to upgrade.
Avro Arrow
Posts: 3,635 +4,680
Well for me, it's about platform longevity. If I can make my PC last longer in gaming to the point that I may be able to skip AM5 competely, that's totally worth it to me.
It always depends on targets and what people want to play, but yeah in general I do think CPUs will last through the next socket. I just can't imagine the 5800X3D becoming obsolete in the next 5 years. But also consoles definitely cycle more than 5 years too, I'm not sure if you were commenting on that side or just CPU side since you included that sentence.
For me specifically, I've been unimpressed with AAA games for some time, so I'm just not excited for any upgrades. I think my most intensive game right now is heavily modded Skyrim, and probably the updated TW3, if and when I get a new RT GPU. Skyrim especially is GPU limited for me, and it's also hard to find people benchmarking (you can load up a lot of mods to improve graphics but it's hard to test that).
Anyway Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and everyone else on here.
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