Steve Wozniak says TikTok ban is governmental hypocrisy

[midian182]

A hot potato: It's understandable that teens and creators are upset about the prospect of TikTok being banned in the US, but one unexpected individual lending their support to ByteDance's app is Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. The Woz says he doesn't understand the proposed ban and called out the US government for being hypocritical by targeting just one social media platform for tracking users when they all do it.

Speaking in an interview with CNN, Wozniak was asked about Apple's walled garden, which the company has long claimed protects its users' privacy and security.

Not too surprisingly, Wozniak defended the company he co-founded with Steve Jobs in 1976, replying that he's glad for the protections he has when it comes to privacy and not getting hacked. He claimed that Apple does a better job in these areas than other tech giants.

"And tracking you - tracking you is questionable. But my gosh, look at what we're accusing TikTok of, and then go look at Facebook and Google and that's how they make their businesses," he added. "I mean, Facebook was a great idea. But then they make all their money just by tracking you and advertising, and Apple doesn't really do that so much. I consider Apple the good guy."

Wozniak was then asked for his opinion on the proposed ban on TikTok. The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act was passed by Congress at the start of the month. If it comes into effect, Chinese owner ByteDance will be forced to divest TikTok within about six months; otherwise, the app will be blocked from app stores and web hosting platforms in the US. President Biden gave his blessing to the bill a few days later, though it's facing delays in the Senate.

TikTok could face a "civil penalty" of up to $5,000 per US user if it fails to comply with the Act's requirements. With up to 170 million such users, the fines could reach as high as $850 billion.

"I don't understand it [the proposed ban], I don't see why," Woz said, adding that he gets a lot of entertainment out of watching TikTok clips, such as those of dog rescues. "What are we saying? We're saying 'Oh, you might be tracked by the Chinese.' Well, they learned it from us."

Wozniak, who helped found the Electronic Frontier Foundation digital rights group, said the principle that someone should not be tracked online without their knowledge should be applied to every company. Singling out an organization such as TikTok because of its China links is "hypocrisy," according to Wozniak. "And that's always obviously common from a political realm."

It was recently revealed that one of the potential buyers of TikTok is controversial former Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick. He's reportedly interested in purchasing the app with help from OpenAI boss Sam Altman and others.

Speaking about the TikTok issues with ABC News' Rachel Scott, Vice President Kamala Harris said "We do not intend to ban TikTok. That is not at all the goal or the purpose of this conversation. We need to deal with the owner, and we have national security concerns about the owner of TikTok, but we have no intention to ban TikTok."

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https://www.techspot.com/news/102395-steve-wozniak-tiktok-ban-governmental-hypocrisy.html

 

[Endymio]

...look at what we're accusing TikTok of, and then go look at Facebook and Google

Not to defend Facebook and Google, but neither has been shown to be providing secret user data -- including GPS locations -- to a communist regime that places millions of its own citizens in slave-labor genocide camps.

 

[Uncle Al]

I am surprised, I thought the WOZ had a better grip on reality ....

 

[Beerfloat]

China in turn blocks access to almost all major international Internet websites and apps, including the likes of Youtube, Gmail, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, Telegram, Twitter and Wikipedia, so it could be described as tit for tat just as much as hypocrisy.

But I guess the real issue is that we should strive to be better than they are.

 

[winjer]

Considering how many western companies have been banned or had their activities restricted in China, the hypocrisy is Wozniak pretending this is a one sided issue.

 

[yRaz]

I guess he's a TikTok user

 

[Neatfeatguy]

His opinion on the tiktok ban is about as meaning full as the opinion of an actor that talks about politics. Anyone with a brain doesn't actually care what these people think about this stuff.

 

[wiyosaya]

It seems like all articles about Woz have a picture of him that make him look like a crazed madman. But this is one of the rare times I agree with @Endymio Woz seems to be overlooking one thing in that all the others who track users like TikTok are not controlled by a communist regime that harvests their tracking data - not that I agree with the fact that all the others track users too.

The basis of the tracking, for most sites except, perhaps, TikTok, is the fallacy of advertising. Marketers want to know about our behaviors since they think that the more they know about us, the more likely we are to buy their crap.

I can't put my hands on it now, but maybe 15-years or so ago, there was a study that indicated that TV advertising did not work. IMO, most advertising these days is a derivative of TV advertising, and to me, still does not work. So, whatever data advertisers were using to create their advertising either the data was bad or the advertisers interpreted it incorrectly. IMO, its not unlike the media providers jumping on the streaming fad thinking it was a money making goldmine without, IMO, understanding why people dumped subscription TV and went to streaming. That's been a recipe for disaster to the media providers.

User data provides an inroad to their wallets/pocketbooks, or so advertisers think. Its another fallacy that keeps modern civilization running - even if it is a rough running.

 

[RudyBob]

What's wrong with hypocrisy? It's what 90% of the media does

 

[nismo91]

It's just another political fad. fortunately I don't use tiktok so I couldn't care less if it's banned or not.

anyway I've been to china and I know that google and meta services are blocked there. but that doesn't stop few people there to use VPN and use whatsapp whenever they need to get in touch with someone in the other part of the world.

people who really needs to use tiktok will find a way to use it even if it's banned. but the most important question is: why are people willing to do so much just to be able to use tiktok? it is not a communication nor a productivity app. it's just like TV. people should be able to live without it.

 

[RudyBob]

I can't put my hands on it now, but maybe 15-years or so ago, there was a study that indicated that TV advertising did not work. IMO, most advertising these days is a derivative of TV advertising, and to me, still does not work.

I agree. I have no idea why companies spend so much for me not to pay attention to their ads

 

[Nobina]

He right

 

[Bobbydpue]

I guess he's a TikTok user

The article pointed out that he said he was on the platform.

 

[Lozzy]

Singling out an organization such as TikTok because of its China links is "hypocrisy," according to Wozniak. "And that's always obviously common from a political realm."

Which just goes to show that tech billionaires can be hypocrites even when talking about hypocrisy

 

[BobHome]

Advertising, I think I'm glazed over from it because I don't really see it or hear it, anymore. If it is too animated on a reading-type site (like this one), I'll sometimes hold my hand over that distractive part of the screen until I'm done reading. (Mainly using a desktop computer)

Hulu I do a little different: I note the countdown (time) for the ad, mute the sound, close my eyes and sort-of-meditate as I count it down to zero in my mind.

 

[toooooot]

China in turn blocks access to almost all major international Internet websites and apps, including the likes of Youtube, Gmail, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, Telegram, Twitter and Wikipedia, so it could be described as tit for tat just as much as hypocrisy.

But I guess the real issue is that we should strive to be better than they are.

Personally, if they are honest and transparent about their practices and app work, I would not care if they were allowed to stay. Yes, we should not be like China, and nothing they do is good in the long run.

 

[netman]

I am surprised, I thought the WOZ had a better grip on reality ....

What reality...? Yours...?!

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Not to defend Facebook and Google, but neither has been shown to be providing secret user data -- including GPS locations -- to a communist regime that places millions of its own citizens in slave-labor genocide camps.

Instead they share that data to western regimes that track everything their citizens do and show a disturbing trend towards silencing their population much like china does.

It's just another political fad. fortunately I don't use tiktok so I couldn't care less if it's banned or not.

anyway I've been to china and I know that google and meta services are blocked there. but that doesn't stop few people there to use VPN and use whatsapp whenever they need to get in touch with someone in the other part of the world.

people who really needs to use tiktok will find a way to use it even if it's banned. but the most important question is: why are people willing to do so much just to be able to use tiktok? it is not a communication nor a productivity app. it's just like TV. people should be able to live without it.

IMO its all politics, tik tok isnt under five eyes control, it's not subservient to the powers of the west, and it isnt compelled to do thing like promote "the message" which allows people to "notice" things that the government would rather you not notice. Same reason facebook and google are banned in china. Anything that cannot be forced to comply with directives from on high must be silenced no matter the consequences.

It seems like all articles about Woz have a picture of him that make him look like a crazed madman. But this is one of the rare times I agree with @Endymio Woz seems to be overlooking one thing in that all the others who track users like TikTok are not controlled by a communist regime that harvests their tracking data - not that I agree with the fact that all the others track users too.

The basis of the tracking, for most sites except, perhaps, TikTok, is the fallacy of advertising. Marketers want to know about our behaviors since they think that the more they know about us, the more likely we are to buy their crap.

I can't put my hands on it now, but maybe 15-years or so ago, there was a study that indicated that TV advertising did not work. IMO, most advertising these days is a derivative of TV advertising, and to me, still does not work. So, whatever data advertisers were using to create their advertising either the data was bad or the advertisers interpreted it incorrectly. IMO, its not unlike the media providers jumping on the streaming fad thinking it was a money making goldmine without, IMO, understanding why people dumped subscription TV and went to streaming. That's been a recipe for disaster to the media providers.

User data provides an inroad to their wallets/pocketbooks, or so advertisers think. Its another fallacy that keeps modern civilization running - even if it is a rough running.

There's no question about it, ads simply dont work on us. But admitting that would destroy companies like google overnight, so we cant have that. Keep up the fake jobs and the fake economy, dont look behind the curtain!

AS a Westerner, I dont mind if China spies on me. I do not live in, nor will I ever visit, China. I'm much more worried about what my own government would do with my data in the name of fighting "hate" and "extremism" which have replaced "raycist" and "not-see" in common vernacular for people who dont support The Message.

 

[netman]

Not to defend Facebook and Google, but neither has been shown to be providing secret user data -- including GPS locations -- to a communist regime that places millions of its own citizens in slave-labor genocide camps.

Yes, you're defending Facebook...! Both Whatsapp and Facebook are NSA fronts to spy on US public not to mention the rest of the world...!

 

[brucek]

They may all be tracking us in a general sense, but it would not surprise me if the US had intelligence to backup that TikTok tries the hardest at specific types of tracking expressly aimed at weakening US national security.

So yes they should fix this obvious hole, and they should get to work at a general reasonable privacy balance for ordinary life too as it relates to all of them.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

I am surprised, I thought the WOZ had a better grip on reality ....

WOZ seems to have a pretty good grip, he can recognize a power grab when he sees one and the dangerous precedent this could set going forward for censoring platforms via financial threats. Believe it or not, the tools used to oppress you enemies will one day be turned on you!

 

[FaTaL]

No one cares what Woz thinks....

 

[Superconductor]

I am surprised, I thought the WOZ had a better grip on reality ....

So did I. But these things happen with the crusty types..

 

[Watzupken]

To be fair, all apps track their users. And we also get tracked by the people/ companies providing the hardware and the OS. And what is stopping the government from obtaining these information? On paper, maybe there is some law/ regulation. But in reality, I am unsure.

 

[quadibloc]

If Steve Wozniak isn't aware of how the PRC uses phones to track Uyghurs and Tibetans, if he isn't aware of its military threats against the Republic of China (Taiwan) which mean that the PRC could benefit from intelligence about the movements of Americans on American soil, he should be. And given these things, even though a ban on TikTok is regrettable, it is necessary and in no way "hypocritical".
There's just no equivalency between mainland China and democratic nations like the U.S. or Britain; Xi Jinping's China, like Vladimir Putin's Russia, is a deadly enemy of every free man and woman in the world.