Telegram's Pavel Durov criticizes Apple for selling 'overpriced, obsolete hardware' from...

Humza

Posts: 867   +162
Staff member
A hot potato: Apple and Telegram's checkered history has seen the messaging app get booted off (and return) to the App Store. Telegram, like several other third parties, deems Apple's policies and approach to be heavy-handed, which also resulted in an EU antitrust complaint last year. In his latest criticism, Telegram founder Pavel Durov stated on his public Telegram channel that Cupertino's business model was based on selling overpriced, obsolete hardware, and that iPhone users were "digital slaves of Apple." His strong-worded commentary comes in response to an NYT investigative report on Apple's relationship with China.

A detailed report from The New York Times on Apple-China relations prompted a response from Telegram's Pavel Durov, in which he criticized Apple and its iOS platform. On his public Telegram channel, the CEO noted that Apple was very efficient at pursuing its business model, which was based on selling "overpriced, obsolete hardware to customers locked in their ecosystem."

Some Apple users might agree on the pricing part, but Cupertino's custom silicon regularly makes waves in the industry, further complementing the user experience with under-the-hood optimizations, so they're unlikely to agree with the obsolete part.

Pavel also took shots at iOS and the iPhone and said that testing his app on Apple's platform felt like he'd been thrown back into the Middle Ages. While iOS is widely known to have better quality, more polished apps than Android, Pavel specifically called out 120Hz displays on modern Android phones (vs. 60Hz on the latest iPhones) that enable much smoother animations. Perhaps the upcoming iPhone 13 with its rumored 120Hz display would change his opinion.

What's harder to change, however, is Cupertino's strict stance and control over its App Store, which is also at center stage of the ongoing Epic vs. Apple antitrust trial. "Owning an iPhone makes you a digital slave of Apple," says Pavel, noting that users have no other choice but to download apps from the App Store, with Apple's iCloud being the only option for natively backing up data.

He also said that it was Apple's "totalitarian" approach that the Chinese Communist Party appreciated, and which has now enabled the Chinese government to take complete control of apps and data of all its citizens using iPhones.

Permalink to story.

 

mountains

Posts: 30   +50
Well, Durov uses some hyperbole, as we all do. And he may not be coming from the most objective position. But he is (somewhat) right about that ecosystem. I would consider switching from Android to iPhone if I could DL and install only open source apps for it like I can (with a little effort) on Android.

Users should be able to control their own stuff.

As for the China part, I won't comment, other than this: human rights and human responsibilities should be important to us all.
 

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 486   +714
Pavel specifically called out 120Hz displays on modern Android phones (vs. 60Hz on the latest iPhones) that enable much smoother animations.
Not sure why a messaging app would benefit from a 120Hz display lmao.
"Owning an iPhone makes you a digital slave of Apple," says Pavel, noting that users have no other choice but to download apps from the App Store, with Apple's iCloud being the only option for natively backing up data.
I've used two separate backup options on my iPhone before and they work wonderfully. I've used OneDrive and Amazon Photos. And sure, users have no choice but to use apps from the app store, except for PWAs and websites. While I'm not always a fan of how Apple runs the app store, I also dislike the alternative.

Plus in basically any other platform, they also make it hard to download apps from their unapproved store, including for Windows 10 apps, addons/extensions for browsers, and so on. And just like these stores, the exception for iOS is side-loading an app when you have the source code, which has always been fully supported on all iOS devices: https://www.iclarified.com/52314/how-to-sideload-apps-onto-your-iphone-using-xcode

There isn't a repository of apps for it yet, but someone has built out a way to install your own app store on iOS and side-load apps using Windows or macOS (over WiFi) and is actively building out a way to choose 3rd party sources of apps to use. I bet one day it'll even be a hosted service! https://altstore.io/
 

Xex360

Posts: 91   +108
While I find Apple's products to be mediocre, Apple doesn't force people to buy their products, if they are philistines it's not Apple's fault.
And to be fair to Apple, Android is not all that great, major manufacturers just follow blindly all the wrong decisions made by Apple, dead pixels (aka notches and holes), no headphone jack, no charger, no replaceable batteries...
 
As a cybersecurity professional, Durov's comments struck me as juvenile hyperbole. I analyzed why I feel this way.

Initially, I attributed it to him being an entitled, whiny millennial.

Next, I considered Telegram is used by terrorists and GQP insurrectionists. However, I don't support law enforcement's demands for a backdoor into hardware and software that compromises individual privacy. Here, he and Tim Cook are on the same side. So that isn't it.

Then, perhaps, it is the fact that Apple is making money on their App Store. Apple does screen posted apps for malware, as does Google's Play Store and also charges fees and commissions. He has the option of offering his software on his own site. All OSs are supported except iPhone. Since iPhone is only about 25% of all smart phones world-wide. He has over 90% of the device market available (Windows, MacOS, LINUX, Android). That can't be the reason, either.

I don't think the libelous comment that Apple has hardware from the Middle Ages is quite accurate. I still use an even older technology when appropriate. I call it "pen and paper."

No, I think I'll stick with the original entitled, whiny impression.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 671   +1,253
While I find Apple's products to be mediocre, Apple doesn't force people to buy their products, if they are philistines it's not Apple's fault.
And to be fair to Apple, Android is not all that great, major manufacturers just follow blindly all the wrong decisions made by Apple, dead pixels (aka notches and holes), no headphone jack, no charger, no replaceable batteries...
We live in a world where a cell phone is almost absolutely needed and we are at the mercy of two companies under that umbrella.

One at the very least, offer a passable option of installing software not approved by which ever priest is on call (sorry, but some of the censorship displayed on the stores seems that way) in the way of sideloading apps and the other side rules with an iron fist on how and what you can install with no option but to bend over to their desires.

So at this point, Apple needs to be forced to allow sideloading other stores or ways for their users to use these dammed devices as we wish.

Better yet, phones at this point should allow the users to install other OS's, as to how some Android devices allow and use whatever they want.
 
Last edited:

defaultluser

Posts: 184   +142
Has this guy seen any benchmarks in the past 15 years?

Benchmarks mean nothing when Apple prevents you from doing jack with your overpowered phone.

You have to jump through hoops just to sideload open-source apps...you can't do any sort of native App development on these over-powered devices!

But obviously, loading a webpage a fraction a second quicker than any other device is worth the cost of ios platform lock-in ; along with the necessary additional lock-in if you want to better manage your device (best connected to a $700 Mac), or if you want to enhance your experience with a smartwatch ($350)

You get the impression that iOS is all about winning benchmarks (while they castrate the platform without any flexibility) - what is the purpose of all that performance advantage if you can't use it?
 
Last edited:

brucek

Posts: 812   +1,130
TechSpot Elite
Different strokes for different folks.

He may be perfectly right that anything less than 120Hz feels bad to his tastes.

Meanwhile Apple is no less right that millions of consumers would not and did not put screen refresh rate as a top priority for a mobile phone, and to the extent it has any noticeable impact on battery life might actively vote against it.

I'm happy for a market that gives me a choice. I see good uses for both Apple-style utility appliances, and open, powerful hardware like my development rigs.

 

trparky

Posts: 921   +973
Users should be able to control their own stuff.
For some users, that would be like the equivalent of handing a baby a grenade all while hoping that it doesn't blow itself up. Some users should not have that kind of power, they will only hurt themselves with it.

Apple's iOS ecosystem is secure because it doesn't let everyone do whatever they please and to be honest, that's essentially why I bought into the platform. Other platforms such as Windows and Android are the digital equivalent of the old Wild Wild West, they're filled with malware and other such dangerous things. I bought into the iPhone because while I have to worry about security on my Windows systems, I don't have to on my iPhone and I want it to stay that way.
 

Wereweeb

Posts: 45   +98
For some users, that would be like the equivalent of handing a baby a grenade all while hoping that it doesn't blow itself up. Some users should not have that kind of power, they will only hurt themselves with it.

Apple's iOS ecosystem is secure because it doesn't let everyone do whatever they please and to be honest, that's essentially why I bought into the platform. Other platforms such as Windows and Android are the digital equivalent of the old Wild Wild West, they're filled with malware and other such dangerous things. I bought into the iPhone because while I have to worry about security on my Windows systems, I don't have to on my iPhone and I want it to stay that way.

I've never in my entire life heard of someone who caught a virus in Android lol. And I live in the "rest of the world", that place where everyone considers Apple to be a bizarre manufacturer of overpriced **** for their seppo cult of whiny *****
 

trparky

Posts: 921   +973
I've never in my entire life heard of someone who caught a virus in Android lol. And I live in the "rest of the world", that place where everyone considers Apple to be a bizarre manufacturer of overpriced **** for their seppo cult of whiny *****
Oh really, how many malware apps have made it to the Google Play Store because Google refuses to properly vet apps before they make it to the Google Play Store? I've lost count.

Now I'm not saying that Apple is perfect, far from it. Apple has had their fair share of oopsies as well and quite a number of them have been real bad mistakes.

Then you have Windows and that ecosystem's a malware infested pile of crap. I hate to say it but open platforms are great for people who know what they're doing but the vast majority of people don't and these people need all the handholding they can get and metric ton more.
 

Xex360

Posts: 91   +108
We live in a world where a cell phone is almost absolutely needed and we are at the mercy of two companies under that umbrella.

One at the very least, offer a passable option of installing software not approved by which ever priest is on call (sorry, but some of the censorship displayed on the stores seems that way) in the way of sideloading apps and the other side rules with an iron fist on how and what you can install with no option but to bend over to their desires.

So at this point, Apple needs to be forced to allow sideloading other stores or ways for their users to use these dammed devices as we wish.

Better yet, phones at this point should allow the users to install other OS's, as to how some Android devices allow and use whatever they want.
Can't agree more.
Yet my issue is with sheep that continue to buy mediocre products from Samsung and Apple, they aren't forced to do so. LG for instance offers superior and cheaper products.
 
For some users, that would be like the equivalent of handing a baby a grenade all while hoping that it doesn't blow itself up. Some users should not have that kind of power, they will only hurt themselves with it.

The majority of people just downloads apps like Spotify, Youtube, Whatsapp and Facebook and be done with it. The people you're talking about are numskulls that would try to Jailbreak an iPhone with zero technical knowledge and mess up their device.

So no matter which device they have, they will find a way to break it.

Oh really, how many malware apps have made it to the Google Play Store because Google refuses to properly vet apps before they make it to the Google Play Store? I've lost count.

Now I'm not saying that Apple is perfect, far from it. Apple has had their fair share of oopsies as well and quite a number of them have been real bad mistakes.

Then you have Windows and that ecosystem's a malware infested pile of crap. I hate to say it but open platforms are great for people who know what they're doing but the vast majority of people don't and these people need all the handholding they can get and metric ton more.

https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-app-store-is-apparently-still-littered-with-malicious-apps
https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/07/emai...os-users-were-affected-by-xcodeghost-malware/

It just takes a few apps to infect millions of devices, so you're kind of downplaying the "oopsies" on the Apple Store.

Device security for the most part depends on the user's technical knowledge, it doesn't matter which ecosystem you're talking about, whether it be Linux, Android, Apple or Windows. I've been using Windows for about 20~ years and yes I've had my fair share of self-induced problems, but I can't recall my Windows computers being infected by anything for the past 10-15~ years.

This is purely anecdotal, but I was able to mess up a Fedora installation 15 years ago in an attempt to install a Codec pack so I could use it for watching Anime, which I did by following up a guide as I had zero knowledge of the commands used in Linux at the time, as it was my first time touching the Linux platform and it wasn't even malware that did it. It's part of the learning process, but unlike people like "us", there's people that never learn from their mistakes and subsequently keep messing up their devices.

So unless there's exploits that require no user-input to exploit, it's inherently the user's fault if their device becomes malware infested, hacked or trashed.

In my opinion the Apple iOS devices cater to keeping users dumb, everybody believes they're 100% safe in their closed ecosystem while using their Apple devices, which of course is a fallacy as it just takes a few apps not (properly) vetted to infect millions of users. A false sense of security inevitably leads to dire consequences.
 

mgilbert

Posts: 30   +68
Anyone with any technical acumen at all already knows this, and avoids Apple like the plague, but it's always nice to see the company called out for its despicable, greedy, draconian, condescending behavior.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 185   +124
Has this guy seen any benchmarks in the past 15 years?
You think geekbench really means anything? Especially between two different platforms? Also what application on a new phone can't run on an 3 year old phone? What kind of processing power does your phone need?

I have several Apple products and I'll likely buy another iPhone, because I just can't be bothered to learn another mobile operating system, but they aren't as amazing as their marketing makes them out to be and their prices for upgrades are just outrageous. $200 for 8BG of RAM? Why? That's how much 32GB of RAM costs. Finally their Mac Pro base model is an insult to consumers. No $6000 computer should only have a 8 core CPU, 256GB of storage and a crappy three generation old entry level $200 GPU. Why spend so much on a case, motherboard and power supply all of which didn't need to be proprietary?
 

Cubi Dorf

Posts: 343   +224
Sideloading would not changing anything for Epic or other developer. Nobody will use it. To only force Apple to allow sideloading is still a win for Apple in court. It is shame choice in mobile is to be a digital slave to Apple or to be stalked by everyone else. The world is deserving better.


Oh boy, watch the rabid cult members coming after him, specially the ones at Ars.

I'm serious, go to Ars and write "sideloading" and "iOS" on the same sentence and watch them go wild.