The myth of China's stolen EUV machine meets reality: it hasn't made a single chip

[Liranan]

China’s track record on transparency and accountability raises valid concerns. Trying to shift focus to tech giants or AI doesn’t change the fact that trust has to be earned. The issues with China and big tech can both be real without one magically absolving the other.

You mean the track record of Operation Paperclip, in which the US stole hundreds of thousands of patents from Germany, and now plays victim while sanctioning everyone (which results in sanctioning yourself in effect)?

Why didn't China steal the patents of high speed trains, rather than buy them from Siemens at extortion prices? Or why don't they steal Airbus patents and copy their designs? Why do they license AMD chips when they can just copy/reverse engineer/Operation Paperclip them? Only one bunch of entities have a track record of theft and it's definitely not China.

 

[Liranan]

Yes, Chinese authoritarianism is a problem, despite that China is still making advancements and closing the gap with every passing day, I'm not sure why you're bringing it up like its a panacea to the whole argument. It doesnt change the fact that China is catching up and will one day surpass the West if they dont fix this problem very soon. Some may argue the cat is already out of the bag.

Being authoritarian didnt stop the Chinese from building new Gen IV nuclear plants, or dominating the EV market, or getting a rover to the moon. It's not gonna stop them from making wafers either. Slow them down? Certainly. But it wont stop them, and the sooner the West wakes up and realizes that the better.

And yet it's not China claiming to be democratic while imprisoning its critics for 'social media posts' and then demand other nations release their own so called political prisoners (who are nothing but traitors and agitators).

There is far more freedom in China than in the western world but most wouldn't know that, living behind the Iron Curtain: Freedom is Slavery.

 

[JMGuy]

You mean the track record of Operation Paperclip, in which the US stole hundreds of thousands of patents from Germany, and now plays victim while sanctioning everyone (which results in sanctioning yourself in effect)?

Why didn't China steal the patents of high speed trains, rather than buy them from Siemens at extortion prices? Or why don't they steal Airbus patents and copy their designs? Why do they license AMD chips when they can just copy/reverse engineer/Operation Paperclip them? Only one bunch of entities have a track record of theft and it's definitely not China.

Operation Paperclip wasn’t unique—victorious powers all seized German scientists and technology after WWII. Copying designs like Airbus or AMD won’t work without certification, supply chains, and advanced tools; licensing is faster and practical. Technological competition is about capacity, bottlenecks, and ecosystems, not “theft versus virtue.” Claims that only one side steals IP are false: the CCP has systematically engaged in theft and forced technology transfer, while the US generally follows transparent laws and accountable institutions. The real difference is governance, not ambition.

So we agree to disagree. Best of luck.

 

[mogo2k]

 

[JMGuy]

I think that Veritasium video underscores well why frontier technology can’t be replicated through appropriation alone. EUV lithography isn’t a blueprint to steal; it’s a decades-long ecosystem built on protected IP, licensing, open research, and institutional trust. A system like the CCP’s, which relies more on forced transfer and state direction than on those conditions, is structurally disadvantaged at the cutting edge.

 

[Dale Dankowski]

And yet it's not China claiming to be democratic while imprisoning its critics for 'social media posts' and then demand other nations release their own so called political prisoners (who are nothing but traitors and agitators).

There is far more freedom in China than in the western world but most wouldn't know that, living behind the Iron Curtain: Freedom is Slavery.

Exactly what I’d expect a Chinese propagandist to say lol

 

[JMGuy]

Exactly what I’d expect a Chinese propagandist to say lol

Agreed. There’s no substance here—just slogans and false equivalence. Claims like this collapse the moment you look at actual freedoms like speech, press, or political choice. It’s a weird thing to refute too because it’s so clearly hollow. It’d be funny if it wasn’t such a sadly distorted perspective.

 

[Liranan]

Exactly what I’d expect a Chinese propagandist to say lol

With those unmistakable powers of ad-hominem you finally outed me, well done to you, sir.

 

[Liranan]

Agreed. There’s no substance here—just slogans and false equivalence. Claims like this collapse the moment you look at actual freedoms like speech, press, or political choice. It’s a weird thing to refute too because it’s so clearly hollow. It’d be funny if it wasn’t such a sadly distorted perspective.

Every accusation is a confession.

 

[JMGuy]

Every accusation is a confession.

Pro tip: fortune cookies aren’t a credible source. Clearly, this has resolved itself—carry on with your fairy tales cause we’re clearly done here. Ba-bye.