GodisanAtheist
Posts: 1,239 +2,600
-Boots on the ground already then?
US military deploys low-cost "Lucas" drone built from reverse-engineered Iranian tech
- Thread starter Skye Jacobs
- Start date
-Boots on the ground already then?
Axeia
Posts: 1,035 +1,431
Ah, so that's why it's about the only thing I've ever read about used by the US military that's cost effective.
If they had gotten one of the usual contractors involved I bet that
1) it would be 5 times the price
2) Require maintenance that adds another 300% to the total cost picture
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
The inflatable decoy we sank the Indian Ocean had a crew of 200 Iranian sailors to complete the illusion. Crafty of them, eh?
If you define "cost effective" as "able to destroy the enemy at minimum risk to US military lives", then our hardware is the most cost effective in the world.
If you want to save money, Russia or China will happily sell you equipment.
gamerk2
Posts: 1,606 +2,042
Exactly this. Heck, if anything, the new regime is even more hardline then the old one was.
It's also worth noting: Khomeini was basically the last person stopping Iran from taking the final step towards putting a nuke together; he even put a Fatwa out banning Iran from doing so. Iran's nuclear stockpile was *always* a negotiating tool (something Obama understood). But with Khomeini killed and Iran being bombed daily, there really isn't any logical argument for Iran *not* putting a nuke together and using it (best case) as a negotiating tool or (worst case) as retaliation.
Basically, I argue there's no way the US in the long term benefits from this.
gamerk2
Posts: 1,606 +2,042
Because the US military wants *everything*, and that costs money for both development and production. The US military frowns on any form of attritional warfare, so they try and make everything state of the art.
gamerk2
Posts: 1,606 +2,042
Note the US doesn't have a great navel base in the area, and putting a carrier well within missile range without having a nearby base to support it is...risky, to say the least.
Not saying Iran can physically sink the carrier, but I bet they'd certainly *try*. And any damage would be a massive PR win in what is fast becoming a war for PR.
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
Eh? We have naval bases in Bahrain and Djibouti, and Jebel Ali in Dubai is our busiest foreign naval port, fully capable of dry-docking the largest carriers. Only slightly further afield we have Souda Bay in the Med, and Diego Gargia in the Indian Ocean. If you're speaking of military bases in general capable of 'guarding' against missile attacks, there are a half-dozen others in the Middle East alone.
But your entire premise is at fault. Carriers are designed to project power anywhere in the world. They're guarded by their carrier group ... not "nearby bases".
Glad you're rejecting the lies that Iran was "extremely far" from being able to produce a nuclear weapon. Nor were Iran's ICBMs just a "negotiating tactic" -- Iran was actively extending their range to encompass all of Europe and, eventually, the US.
That statement is incorrect. Technically, Khomeini's fatwa specifically excluded the production and stockpiling of nuclear weapons; it mentioned only their use. And Khameini advisor Ali Larijani said just a year ago that if Iran was threatened, it would have no choice but to deploy nukes.
You've also forgotten that Iran is a Shia nation, not Shiite. Shias consider fatwas as interpreted "to the needs of the time", and they are often issued, then revoked for political and other purposes.
For most of the world it's difficult working out why the hell America stepped into this war at all. It's costing you $1b/day to be in this fight but you seem to have no obvious goal in mind. Trump talks about peace one moment, then promises an invasion, then retreats all his ships, then says he's already won. He demands negotiations but seems to forget he bombed and killed the Iranian leadership a month ago during the middle of negotiations.
America appears to be losing this war and has no obvious ways forward while Iran has a cheap way of escalating the war at any moment by destroying refineries and desalination plants in the region. This either stops future oil supply or destroys the country wholesale. It can also keep the tariffs on shipping in the Straits as it's far easier to sink a few merchant ships than protect them all in such a confined space.
It didn't really matter so much while Trump was only destroying the American economy and isolating it politically but he now seems intent on destroying the world economy. Is there a reason you keep him in power? Is it just fear?
America appears to be losing this war and has no obvious ways forward while Iran has a cheap way of escalating the war at any moment by destroying refineries and desalination plants in the region. This either stops future oil supply or destroys the country wholesale. It can also keep the tariffs on shipping in the Straits as it's far easier to sink a few merchant ships than protect them all in such a confined space.
It didn't really matter so much while Trump was only destroying the American economy and isolating it politically but he now seems intent on destroying the world economy. Is there a reason you keep him in power? Is it just fear?
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
Not for anyone with a working brain. Iran had rapidly expanded its missile range from 200 to 2,000 km and was actively modifying its SRVs to be capable of striking any point in the Northern hemisphere. It also had a stock of HEU large enough for a dozen plus nuclear warheads, and was actively producing more.
The Biden Administration spent $190B on the USAID program, to fund transgender operas in Guatemala and free condoms for Africa. Destroying Iran's nuclear and ICBM ambitions are cheap at ten times the price.
Why lie? The negotiations had ended when the war began -- I've already given you countless links to verify this. And Iran's installed new leadership ... who do you think is directing their terror attacks in the Strait and throughout the Middle East?
Again - not for anyone with a functioning brain. Iran's entire navy is sunk, their air force vaporized, their reprocessing facilities are rubble, and their missile factories are smoldering ruins. Their missile attacks have dropped more than 90% from the war's start, and at their current rate of use, will be exhausted entirely within the next few weeks.
But hey, they have a dozen speedboats armed with rifles still!
Iran attempted to do this weeks ago -- and failed. They no longer have the missile stocks to even try.
America justified the Iraq war saying they had WMD. This was then proven to be completely false. American oil companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are now working the Iraq oil fields. Even the director of the national counterterrorism center said that Iran posed no imminent threat and resigned over the needless attack. I'm guessing he would know better than anyone.
I'm fairly certain that condoms aren't that expensive. I presume the idea was to combat the spread of AIDS. There are 1.2m people in America and the lifetime cost of treating them is between $500K and $1m. The total cost for treating them would be roughly $900B. Maybe Biden's approach would of been a lot cheaper. The total money spent in Guatemala for transgender operas etc was $1.2m so you're exaggerating by 190,000 x there.
The talks had finished their 3rd phase and were scheduled to continue on the following week. We had summaries of the talks on our news channels and things seemed to be going reasonably well. Everyone was surprised when you bombed them during the middle of the talks.
On the very first day of the war, Iran hit hit back at Israel with 900 ballistic missiles. I guess that means Israel is being hit daily by 100 missiles. I understand roughly 10 cluster warhead missiles hit Haifi a day or two back with about 400 wounded. Israel has banned reporting on missile hits so full information on damage is difficult to gather.
Yesterday they shot down a F15 fighter and a Warthog ground attack plane. Later two C130 transport planes and two black hawk attack helicopters were destroyed. The US Navy has also pulled out the area for safety reasons. I'm guessing those guys with their rifles must be quite good?
As an aside. I don't think it comes across well to continually try and insult people who you disagree with. I don't think my opinion is unique as when looking at videos of missile attacks on Israeli cities that there's almost no sympathy for Israel. I guess most people feel the genocide you instigated in Gaza, the occupation of Palestine, the West Bank, the Golan Heights and Lebanon just isn't acceptable in current times. I'll also point out your prime minster is now a wanted war criminal.
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
The intelligence services of the UK, Germany, and France all agreed Iraq had an active WMD program. Intelligence isn't always perfect, but in the case of IRAN, we know with zero doubt they possess a large store of refined HEU, ballistic missiles with a 2,000 km range, and SRVs that, with minor modification, can strike the entire Western Hemisphere. Iraq denied their WMD ambitions; Iran is flaunting them.
Those same firms were in Iraq long before the war. So? Iraq lacks the expertise to produce its own oil.
You mean Joe Kent, who resigned the day he found out he had for months been under criminal investigation for leaking classified data? That the guy you mean?
When you buy several billion of them, they add up. They're even more expensive when the dollars to buy them pass through dozens of "sticky finger" steps, each of which takes a large percentage. That's how USAID was able to spend $190 billion in just four years.
Your English comprehension has failed you again. We weren't buying condoms for Americans. We were buying them for African -- along with distributing pro-LGBTQ literature to the Taliban (yes, no joke), holding transgender opera performances in Guatemala and musicals in Ireland, advancing DEI programs in Serbia, publishing transgender comic books in Peru (again, no joke), and countless other programs that seemed tailor-designed to create resentment against the US.
Glad you admit you lied. The talks had concluded. The US never agreed to "additional phases". More importantly, through all three phases, Iran had refused utterly to renounce its nuclear ambitions. That's all they had to do.
Oops! Yesterday, Iran launched less than 10 missiles at Israel, only one of which even hit its target (an apartment building). As you see, Iran is clearly running out of munitions.
Anyone who lacks sympathy for the intentional targeting of civilians deserves no respect. Period. The Nazis were the worst regime on earth ... by your logic, there was nothing wrong with Allied troops raping young German girls as they advanced on Berlin.
Do you not think it's possible that the Trump administration are simply trying to discredit him for making his (very informed) opinion public? And, even if what you said was true, wouldn't you believe a person who was trying to release the truth?
Have you seen a picture of what you guys did to Gaza? The whole city was levelled. They estimate that 30,000 women and children were killed. That's not including all those that died due to Israel stopping water, food and medical supplies.
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
The facts contradict you. As even the anti-Trump NYT has reported, the investigation into Kent began many months earlier. Months.
It wasn't until Kent learned of his impending indictment that he resigned .. and found a convenient cover story to blame others for his crime.
Will you please stop the lies? Neither myself personally nor my country was involved in Gaza. I'm not a big fan of Israel's actions there, but using them to justify the terrorism of the Iranian regime is beyond reprehensible.
A fraction of the number of women and children killed by the Iranian regime. So tell me again: why do you support them?
I did a dated search on Google to find the earliest reports of the investigation. The earliest I could find were around the 18 March. It was the sources from the White House at this time that said he had been under investigation for months though it was curious these reports were published immediately after his resignation. I guess you have to choose to believe either the director of the counterterrorism center who was a former green beret and who'd served 11 active combat deployments or you can believe the guy with the vindictive criminal with bone spurs. Your choice.
You haven't stated what country you're from but your views are obviously zionist therefore it was reasonable to assume you were Israeli or at least Jewish. Just to clear things up, what country are you from and are you Jewish?
I couldn't find any numbers for women and children killed by Iran but the highest number I saw for total killed by the regime was 30,000. Israel I understand killed approximately 100,000 in Gaza. Both numbers are still appalling.
I don't support Iran. I'm just horrified by the garbage that people put out to justify either the pursuit of oil or with the intent of expanding Israeli territory. I'm also amazed that people lap it up.
Endymio
Posts: 5,144 +4,806
You really struggle with facts. The NYTimes itself cites numerous sources within the DOJ who all verify this criminal investigation into Kent long predates his resignation; here's one of their several stories on the issue:
F.B.I. Investigates Joe Kent, Whose Resignation Over Iran War Angered Trump
Mr. Kent is under investigation for a possible intelligence leak, according to people familiar with the situation. The inquiry is said to predate his resignation this week as the top U.S. counterterrorism official.
www.nytimes.com
What's worse is the absurdity of your desire to believe this nonsense. Do you even know what the Director of the US counter-terrorism center does? If so, you'd hardly claim he knows more than our CIA, or Iran's own foreign minister, who himself admitted the stumbling block in the peace talks was Iran's refusal to give up their stocks of HEU, their reprocessing ability, and their ICBM programs.
Let me share a basic principle of rational thought with you. When I state a fact, it remains true regardless of my race, skin color, ethnicity, or national origin. Let's leave the racism aside, shall we?
Both numbers are wrong. The highest estimate for civilians killed in Gaza is 72,000, whereas for Iran it tops 120,000, counting those killed in earlier protests against the regime.
The content of your posts says otherwise.
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