Elon Musk bites back at the SEC: Shortseller Enrichment Commission

mongeese

Posts: 533   +111
Staff member

Someone really needs to delete Musk’s Twitter account. We all know the story by now: Musk suggested on Twitter that Saudi Arabia would be taking Tesla private, sending shares soaring, but changed his mind shortly after, resulting in the SEC filing a lawsuit against Musk saying that he had been manipulating shares. They then agreed to a settlement that was just recently signed by a judge, stipulating that Musk had to step down as Chairman of Tesla and pay a $20 million fine.

It appears a lot of people are very salty about the whole affair. Many Tesla investors took to Twitter to complain that Musk was burning their money with his tweets, one going so far as to even say: “I have lost 30 years of my life savings all on Tesla thanks to your tweets, please stop.” While venting his anger, Musk took aim at short sellers, tweeting that “what they do should be illegal.” He later added that “the last several years have taught me that they are indeed reasonably maligned.”

Greenlight Capital, an investment firm who had just short sold Tesla stocks, felt particularly irritated. In an investor letter obtained by Reuters today, Hedge fund manager David Einhorn compared Tesla to Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., a company whose bankruptcy Einhorn had predicted four months in advance. “Like Lehman, we think the deception is about to catch up to Tesla. Elon Musk’s erratic behaviour suggests that he sees it the same way.”

Einhorn spent quite some time in his letter insulting the “despondent” Musk and allegedly doomed Tesla. Musk responded, again on Twitter, by announcing he would “send Einhorn a box of short shorts to comfort him during this difficult time.”

Musk is a bit too witty for his own good. Rather wisely, the SEC declined to comment on the tweets.

Permalink to story.

 

EEatGDL

Posts: 766   +491
And he keeps not learning his lesson: to leave Twitter, for his own good. This guy has 0 emotional intelligence.

And who does he think fuel the price bounces? The short-sellers themselves. Short-sellers usually anticipate to the possible falls in stock price, try to be the first to sell and then a chain reaction of both short and long sellers having their sell stop-losses triggered, further add to the dump, wrongly perceived as "panic". But the first ones to buy at the perceived bottom, starting the bounce, are -again- the short-sellers, who don't make a profit until they buy again. Then long-sellers start jumping in again. This is an organic cycle, quite necessary, so that both long and short-sellers can make a profit, through different means and different moments --long-sellers profiting at sale; short-sellers profiting at buy. Sorry for the finance course, but this guy is unbelievable.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,447   +3,771
I’m more inclined to believe that Musk is doing all of this purposefully.... he knows that Tesla is built on deception - it has yet to show much of a profit and is most likely doomed to die.... this is his way of smokescreening.... now that he’s been “forced” to step down, he can blame someone else for the eventual demise....

Remember, he’s worth BILLIONS, so he’s probably not as dumb as people think....
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,742   +5,186
And he keeps not learning his lesson: to leave Twitter, for his own good. This guy has 0 emotional intelligence.

And who does he think fuel the price bounces? The short-sellers themselves. Short-sellers usually anticipate to the possible falls in stock price, try to be the first to sell and then a chain reaction of both short and long sellers having their sell stop-losses triggered, further add to the dump, wrongly perceived as "panic". But the first ones to buy at the perceived bottom, starting the bounce, are -again- the short-sellers, who don't make a profit until they buy again. Then long-sellers start jumping in again. This is an organic cycle, quite necessary, so that both long and short-sellers can make a profit, through different means and different moments --long-sellers profiting at sale; short-sellers profiting at buy. Sorry for the finance course, but this guy is unbelievable.
Clueless is the word I prefer.
I’m more inclined to believe that Musk is doing all of this purposefully.... he knows that Tesla is built on deception - it has yet to show much of a profit and is most likely doomed to die.... this is his way of smokescreening.... now that he’s been “forced” to step down, he can blame someone else for the eventual demise....

Remember, he’s worth BILLIONS, so he’s probably not as dumb as people think....
Personally, I don't think wealth equates to intelligence. He was in the proverbial right place at the right time to start PayPal which is where he made most of his money. It is our society that makes wealthy people out to be intelligent.

As I see it, he has been under immense pressure to make Tesla profitable and all this spew that he emits is a result of that pressure. The smokescreens are also a side-effect of that pressure, and those smokescreens are all :poop:

To me, the right way to go about handling the fact that Tesla has not been performing well is to be totally honest about it. Musk's smokescreens do more harm than good because they create unreasonable expectations from his investors, and this is what is getting Musk into deep :poop: As I see his actions, they are the actions of an inherently immature and insecure personality who is incapable of being honest with himself. Therefore, he misleads, then backtracks when his grandiose visions have to be walked back because they are so grandiose. Its like the story of the boy who cried wolf. With every smokescreen and/or grandiose proclamation that does not come true, he is leading investors further and further into a hole. When that hole gets deep enough for enough investors, expect some serious backlash. This article talks about someone loosing 30-years worth of life savings; personally, I would expect more if I were you, and if Musk can somehow be sued for the fall out, he may very well lose whatever fortune he has.
 

DaveBG

Posts: 580   +264
Someone needs to lock Musk up and throw away the key. Talk about an ungrateful jerk blaming everyone else for his missteps. Musk is the world's number one clown.

No one cares, but its funny how the haters are going crazy after every one of the tweets. Maybe this is his intention :)
 

Reachable

Posts: 370   +183
Warren Buffet called derivatives (such as shortselling) "financial weapons of mass destruction" and his words proved to be prescient -- the crisis of 2008 was caused primarily by derivatives which had been set to proliferate because of deregulation.

There's nothing noble about gambling in the financial market with no concern being paid to the overall effects of your investments. The SEC seems to see its role as making sure that nobody, no matter what they're doing, gets purposefully screwed. That's a very shallow concern when you look at the whole picture.

Musk's criticisms should be taken seriously. However, it does look like he's become a bit unhinged.
 

Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,438   +2,568
Short selling is the equivalent of vultures profiting from other people's misfortune. It's just business but it has that implication. I understand the vitriol of people that try to build companies and improve their world when there are others literally begging and praying for them to fail so they can make their money.

I find it all amusing. I would say that Musk's tweet was calculated to manipulate the stock price temporarily to try and seriously damage a lot of short sellers. Judging by the reaction, it likely worked quite well. Very mischievous.
 

ShObiT

Posts: 200   +217
Warren Buffet called derivatives (such as shortselling) "financial weapons of mass destruction" and his words proved to be prescient -- the crisis of 2008 was caused primarily by derivatives which had been set to proliferate because of deregulation.

There's nothing noble about gambling in the financial market with no concern being paid to the overall effects of your investments. The SEC seems to see its role as making sure that nobody, no matter what they're doing, gets purposefully screwed. That's a very shallow concern when you look at the whole picture.

Musk's criticisms should be taken seriously. However, it does look like he's become a bit unhinged.
I don't want to say that people are uneducated, but they usually don't make any research, hell even watching movies about the 2008 crash should give you a picture of what exactly is musk talking. I'm baffled when modern slave like my self, sitting like a duck in a 8-5 environment calls a self made millionaire "Dumb" or " Uninformed"...

Like, are you really thinking that a guy that programmed Paypal, Got SpaceX to get military contract in only 10 years, got Tesla to be a threat to the Big automakers, with btw 7 years ago were untouchable, really! a guy like that could be "Dumb'!? give me a break!
 

drjekelmrhyde

Posts: 388   +140
I wouldn't be shocked if him, Trump, and Kanye blow themselves after each tweet. If our internet went down for a month, these guys would be insane enough to bottle their own White Castle farts, and throw them into the ocean.
 

Skjorn

Posts: 633   +483
Warren Buffet called derivatives (such as shortselling) "financial weapons of mass destruction" and his words proved to be prescient -- the crisis of 2008 was caused primarily by derivatives which had been set to proliferate because of deregulation.

There's nothing noble about gambling in the financial market with no concern being paid to the overall effects of your investments. The SEC seems to see its role as making sure that nobody, no matter what they're doing, gets purposefully screwed. That's a very shallow concern when you look at the whole picture.

Musk's criticisms should be taken seriously. However, it does look like he's become a bit unhinged.
I don't want to say that people are uneducated, but they usually don't make any research, hell even watching movies about the 2008 crash should give you a picture of what exactly is musk talking. I'm baffled when modern slave like my self, sitting like a duck in a 8-5 environment calls a self made millionaire "Dumb" or " Uninformed"...

Like, are you really thinking that a guy that programmed Paypal, Got SpaceX to get military contract in only 10 years, got Tesla to be a threat to the Big automakers, with btw 7 years ago were untouchable, really! a guy like that could be "Dumb'!? give me a break!
He also thinks his tweets aren't market manipulation and reality is all just a simulation.. dumb af to me
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,742   +5,186
Warren Buffet called derivatives (such as shortselling) "financial weapons of mass destruction" and his words proved to be prescient -- the crisis of 2008 was caused primarily by derivatives which had been set to proliferate because of deregulation.

There's nothing noble about gambling in the financial market with no concern being paid to the overall effects of your investments. The SEC seems to see its role as making sure that nobody, no matter what they're doing, gets purposefully screwed. That's a very shallow concern when you look at the whole picture.

Musk's criticisms should be taken seriously. However, it does look like he's become a bit unhinged.
I don't want to say that people are uneducated, but they usually don't make any research, hell even watching movies about the 2008 crash should give you a picture of what exactly is musk talking. I'm baffled when modern slave like my self, sitting like a duck in a 8-5 environment calls a self made millionaire "Dumb" or " Uninformed"...

Like, are you really thinking that a guy that programmed Paypal, Got SpaceX to get military contract in only 10 years, got Tesla to be a threat to the Big automakers, with btw 7 years ago were untouchable, really! a guy like that could be "Dumb'!? give me a break!
IMO, Tesla is not a threat to the automakers. In time, I am confident that will pan out. If it doesn't, feel free to point out this post to me and tell me "I told you so."

If you want to call "innovative" taking off-the-shelf parts and using them to make an electric car, that's your prerogative. However, what I call innovative is working to invent new battery technology. Automakers, except Tesla, are doing that. When they bring that to market, Tesla will no longer be able play in the sandbox because battery energy densities will be higher (meaning greater range) and the level of danger will be reduced making Tesla's current off-the-shelf approach obsolete.

That raw research that the other automakers are doing is very difficult. Taking parts from the shelf and assembling them into something is significantly easier by comparison.

Musk and Tesla are too busy trying to make a buck to take the time to innovate. More so, Musk has too much energy in anger directed at his short sellers just because they are "betting against him". IMO, if he was really as intelligent as people claim he is, Musk would not give a crap that there are those who short-sell Tesla stock.

Short selling is done all the time in the stock market. Its nothing new and completely legal. As long as the overall stock market remains just as it is, short selling will still occur regardless of the petty battles that Musk sees in investors short selling Tesla stock.

Personally, I don't think wealth equates to intelligence.
He certainly could have lost it all before now, if he had no intelligence.
Give it time.
Short selling is the equivalent of vultures profiting from other people's misfortune. It's just business but it has that implication. I understand the vitriol of people that try to build companies and improve their world when there are others literally begging and praying for them to fail so they can make their money.

I find it all amusing. I would say that Musk's tweet was calculated to manipulate the stock price temporarily to try and seriously damage a lot of short sellers. Judging by the reaction, it likely worked quite well. Very mischievous.
Absolutely. As a matter of fact, short selling has no effect on anything other than, perhaps, Tesla's stock price. Even short selling's effect on a stock price is almost certainly far less than how a company performs.

Tesla gained the monies from the stock sale with the initial public offering. There is no further benefit to Tesla from the stock. Only stock holders can now benefit from Tesla stock. Musk's disdainful tweets about those shorting his stock are nothing more than more gas coming out Musk's rear.
I wouldn't be shocked if him, Trump, and Kanye blow themselves after each tweet. If our internet went down for a month, these guys would be insane enough to bottle their own White Castle farts, and throw them into the ocean.
ROTFLMAO!! (y) (Y)
 

DaveBG

Posts: 580   +264
Someone needs to lock Musk up and throw away the key. Talk about an ungrateful jerk blaming everyone else for his missteps. Musk is the world's number one clown.

No one cares, but its funny how the haters are going crazy after every one of the tweets. Maybe this is his intention :)
I think his shareholders care.
He is giving you opportunities to buy cheap. There is no other stock that jumps $60-70 every few days at right sharp angles :) Stock heaven
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,666   +6,454
He can't match Trump on Twitter.
Well, I suppose that depends on what you mean. by "match".

Trump was elected POTUS,(Well pretty much). Musk was just slapped down like a misbehaving 2 year old by the SEC.

Musk railing at short sellers amounts to him saying, "you need to give me all your money and let me keep it". He's a petulant, whiny, braggart, with grifter intentions. He's a fast talking con man, who abides and lives by their code, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t". It's really the only talent he's got.

Well that,and taking someones money and handing it to someone else, while skimming off a chunk for himself, is the only thing he's good at. I suppose his incomparable ability of talking his way around weak minds is another. But that could hardly be described as a "virtue".

Musk's rant against the SEC was a foregone inevitability. Everybody is picking on poor Elon, Everybody is out to get poor Elon. Elon is the only bright light in the way forward into the future..Spare me. That's just his latest chapter in his latest assault on the rest of the human race for his failures, and as he sees it, the rest of the world's failure for not proclaiming him its emperor.

So, is Musk really a billionaire? Maybe, but if he tried to liquidate those assets, Tesla would fail, their stock price would plummet, and the SEC would have him on the carpet, and not be willing to accept a simple slap on his wrist as his punishment this time around.

So in reality, he's just a mouthy braggart, trekking from camera to camera on his expense account, and pretty much starting to alienate everyone he comes into contact with.So, let's call him, "the Al Sharpton of the scientific community".
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,666   +6,454
He is giving you opportunities to buy cheap. There is no other stock that jumps $60-70 every few days at right sharp angles :) Stock heaven
But, with 2 billion in published losses last year, is Tesla stock a true bargain, whether purchased high or low, at least for the time being?

The US government declared some banks and automakers, "too big to fail". I seriously doubt if they would come to the same conclusion about Tesla. So it could become a footnote in the annal of business history, and not the world leading automaker that Musk would have you believe it is already.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,666   +6,454
I’m more inclined to believe that Musk is doing all of this purposefully.... he knows that Tesla is built on deception - it has yet to show much of a profit and is most likely doomed to die.... this is his way of smokescreening.... now that he’s been “forced” to step down, he can blame someone else for the eventual demise....
When you say, "has yet to show much of a profit", when exactly was that? They lost 2 billion last year, and I can't recall then really posting more than a few solvent quarters in their entire history

I Remember, he’s worth BILLIONS, so he’s probably not as dumb as people think....
How about if you remember, many of those "billions" are in Tesla stock. So, should they fail, a great many of Musk's "billions", could evaporate in a heartbeat.

Then there's his "boring company", with plenty of permits, but which had him selling toy flamethrowers to help keep it afloat...

Musk as "the idea man" is really not much more than a chimp throwing crap at a wall, trying to find out what will stick.
 
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MilwaukeeMike

Posts: 3,214   +1,468
Warren Buffet called derivatives (such as shortselling) "financial weapons of mass destruction" and his words proved to be prescient -- the crisis of 2008 was caused primarily by derivatives which had been set to proliferate because of deregulation.

There's nothing noble about gambling in the financial market with no concern being paid to the overall effects of your investments. The SEC seems to see its role as making sure that nobody, no matter what they're doing, gets purposefully screwed. That's a very shallow concern when you look at the whole picture.

Musk's criticisms should be taken seriously. However, it does look like he's become a bit unhinged.

Warren Buffet was exaggerating. Ask 5 different experts what caused the 2008 crisis and you'll get 5 different answers because there are a pile of things that had to align and go wrong together. Blaming derivatives for a people losing money is like blaming alcohol for being drunk. Those derivatives don't go out and buy themselves anymore that that beer just jumped down your throat when you weren't looking.

Short selling isn't a derivative, it's just borrowing stock from someone else so you can sell it without owning it. It's used for hedging very often. Say you loaned Tesla a lot of money and you're nervous they won't pay you back. You can short sell their stock so just in case they go under you'll be protected a little (because you'll make money on your short sold stock even though you lost it on the loan they didn't pay back).

If Musk really wants to stick it to the short sellers who are speculating (just betting Tesla will crash) then prove them wrong and succeed. Most short sellers don't think Tesla will fail anyway, they just think the price went up faster than it should have and it's going to come back down. It's not personal.
 

JaredTheDragon

Posts: 685   +441
Like, are you really thinking that a guy that programmed Paypal, Got SpaceX to get military contract in only 10 years, got Tesla to be a threat to the Big automakers, with btw 7 years ago were untouchable, really! a guy like that could be "Dumb'!? give me a break!

He didn't do any of that stuff. He hasn't ever done anything except act like a nerd. That's his job - alongside tanking tech companies with his terrible persona and suckering fanboys into an irrational e-crush. Which is what we're seeing from you, so at least that part of his career is working well.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,447   +3,771
He didn't do any of that stuff. He hasn't ever done anything except act like a nerd. That's his job - alongside tanking tech companies with his terrible persona and suckering fanboys into an irrational e-crush. Which is what we're seeing from you, so at least that part of his career is working well.
Actually he DID do those things.... he might have done them through unethical means, but results are results.... do I think Tesla is doomed... yes... but I really doubt that a self-made multi-billionaire is dumb....
 

JaredTheDragon

Posts: 685   +441
He didn't do any of that stuff. He hasn't ever done anything except act like a nerd. That's his job - alongside tanking tech companies with his terrible persona and suckering fanboys into an irrational e-crush. Which is what we're seeing from you, so at least that part of his career is working well.
Actually he DID do those things.... he might have done them through unethical means, but results are results.... do I think Tesla is doomed... yes... but I really doubt that a self-made multi-billionaire is dumb....

He never programmed anything, designed anything, or DID anything for these companies. He invested in them and they fronted him as their Jobs/Gates/Zucky. He's a fraud from top to bottom, including his "financial worth", his ancestry, and his marriages and children.