LG reconsidering $1.3 billion Arizona battery plant in light of "unprecedented economic...

[midian182]

In brief: LG Energy Solution (LGES), the world's second-largest maker of electric car batteries and a major Tesla supplier, is reviewing its plans to build a $1.3 billion plant in Queen Creek, Arizona, as US inflation continues to soar, resulting in what it calls "unprecedented economic conditions."

LGES plans to build an Arizona plant with 11 GWh/year capacity to supply cylinder-type batteries for EVs and electric tools. The company earlier this year announced that construction on the facility was set to begin in the second quarter, with mass production scheduled for the second half of 2024

But the plant may not go ahead. LGES said it is currently reviewing various investment options in light of the "unprecedented economic conditions and investment circumstances in the United States." An LGES spokesperson specified to Reuters that the company would reevaluate its investment in the Arizona factory.

Increased construction costs, weakening battery demand, rising inflation, and the economic downturn are all factors in LGES' hesitation. It will take at least one to two months for the company to decide whether to abandon plans for the Arizona factory. However, it is still building three plants with General Motors in Ohio, Tennessee, and Michigan and intends to expand its existing factory in Michigan.

The faltering economy and fears of a recession are impacting several tech firms. Tesla has laid off a percentage of its workforce, which has led to a lawsuit claiming it violated federal laws. CEO boss Elon Musk also demanded that staff return to the office for at least 40 hours per week. Unfortunately, it seems there aren't enough parking spaces or desks at Tesla's offices to accommodate them.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/95118-lg-reconsidering-13-billion-arizona-battery-plant-light.html

 

[GreenNova343]

Not sure why they said "In the US", I thought that the entire world was having issues with inflation & lagging economies.

 

[kenny loris]

Not sure why they said "In the US", I thought that the entire world was having issues with inflation & lagging economies.

May be cause like USD, USA is the main source to gauge the inflation and unprecedented economic conditions.

 

[HarleyH8r]

The future is not ready for the present.

 

[scavengerspc]

May be cause like USD, USA is the main source to gauge the inflation and unprecedented economic conditions.

From everything I can find it seems you are right, which is kind of baffling when you think about it. We in the US almost always has 8-10% higher inflation numbers because of our habit of printing money like newspapers and constantly rising deficits and the national debt.

Just look at the world economic situation, and even now our inflation numbers are a bit higher than most of the world. However, the huge jump in fuel prices here are actually quite a bit lower than the rest of the world and especially Europe.

Does Rising National Debt Portend Rising Inflation?

While many people worry about the size of the national debt, the key is whether inflation remains tolerable or rises for a prolonged period.

www.stlouisfed.org

How Does Money Supply Affect Inflation?

Learn about two competing economic theories of the role of money supply and whether money supply causes inflation in the economy.

www.investopedia.com

We have learned to keep cool and rely on our systems in place to keep things in balance, but it does seem a bit silly to use as a gauge for the rest of the world.

EDIT

For citations

 

[Endymio]

We in the US almost always has 8-10% higher inflation numbers

No.The US has for half a century had substantially lower inflation than most of the world (Japan being a singular exception). We had 1% inflation before Biden took office, and had ran below 4% for more than 20 years before that.

Why did inflation jump from 1% to nearly 9% so quickly, the fastest rate of increase ever recorded in the US? Because 80% of the total US dollars in circulation were printed in the last two years. You can't expand the money supply five-fold and not expect severe repercussions. As Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman said, "inflation is, always and everywhere, a monetary phenomenon."

 

[scavengerspc]

No.The US has for half a century had substantially lower inflation than most of the world (Japan being a singular exception). We had 1% inflation before Biden took office, and had ran below 4% for more than 20 years before that.

Why did inflation jump from 1% to nearly 9% so quickly, the fastest rate of increase ever recorded in the US? Because 80% of the total US dollars in circulation were printed in the last two years. You can't expand the money supply five-fold and not expect severe repercussions. As Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman said, "inflation is, always and everywhere, a monetary phenomenon."

Yes. I'm not doing this with you. Read the reports I got my true facts from. I know you didn't. Or better yet, find your own. For once. Everything you are pretending to present is in there.

Or you could go watch Mad Money or Charles Payne. That's where I learned what I wrote. Whine to them.

 

[Endymio]

Yes. I'm not doing this with you. Read the reports I got my true facts from.

I read both your links. Neither of them supports your claim that the US "has always had 8-10% higher inflation.". And one of your own links, in fact, agrees explictly with me:

Link #2: "Does Printing Money Cause Inflation? Yes, "printing" money by increasing the money supply causes inflationary pressure. "

 

[scavengerspc]

I read both your links. Neither of them supports your claim that the US "has always had 8-10% higher inflation.". And one of your own links, in fact, agrees explictly with me:

Link #2: "Does Printing Money Cause Inflation? Yes, "printing" money by increasing the money supply causes inflationary pressure. "

From my first post here:

"We in the US almost always has 8-10% higher inflation numbers because of our habit of printing money like newspapers and constantly rising deficits and the national debt."

What the hell is wrong with you?

 

[scavengerspc]

I read both your links. Neither of them supports your claim that the US "has always had 8-10% higher inflation."

And by the way. My "claim" was my own. It's exceptionally easy to go back nearly a century and find the inflation rate for damn near any country. And that's what I did after I heard the comments about it on Mad Money, and then I did the math. You could too, despite your obvious objection to actually reading what you comment on.

 

[Endymio]

This:

And by the way. My "claim" was my own.

Followed my objection to your original statement:

Read the reports I got my true facts from.

If you wish to compare inflation rates from a century ago, you're welcome to, but I don't know the relevance. Bretton Woods hadn't yet happened, and many nations were still on the gold standard. The fact remains that, in modern times -- the last 35 years or so -- the US did not had "8-10% higher inflation" than the rest of the world:

1992 Inflation Rates:
USA: 2.9%
Eurozone: 6.5%
East Asia: 6.23%
Latin America: 11.2%

2001 Inflation Rates:
USA: 1.6%
Eurozone: 3.48%
East Asia: 2.68%
Latin America: 4.36%

 

[scavengerspc]

If you wish to compare inflation rates from a century ago, you're welcome to, but I don't know the relevance. Bretton Woods hadn't yet happened, and many nations were still on the gold standard. The fact remains that, in modern times -- the last 35 years or so -- the US did not had "8-10% higher inflation" than the rest of the world:

1992 Inflation Rates:
USA: 2.9%
Eurozone: 6.5%
East Asia: 6.23%
Latin America: 11.2%

2001 Inflation Rates:
USA: 1.6%
Eurozone: 3.48%
East Asia: 2.68%
Latin America: 4.36%

If you wish to compare inflation rates from a century ago, you're welcome to, but I don't know the relevance.

I don't doubt that for a second.
But you made some serious errors in your numbers. I didn't in mine. See if you can find out what!

In the meantime, the inflation rate in the US in 2001 was 2.85%.

$100 in 2019 → 2001 | Inflation Calculator

The 2.06% inflation rate means $100 in 2001 is equivalent to $69.27 in 2019. This inflation calculator uses the official US consumer price index.

www.officialdata.org

"The inflation rate in 2001 was 2.85%"

And the inflation rate in Europe in 2001 was 2.41%

2000 euros in 2001 | Euro Inflation Calculator

This inflation calculator uses the official Eurozone consumer price index. An inflation rate of 2.41% per year means €100 in 2000 is worth €102.41 in 2001.

www.officialdata.org

"The inflation rate in 2000 was 2.18%. The inflation rate in 2001 was 2.41%"

In 2001 our inflation rate was 18% higher.

I know in my post earlier I said you should do the math.
Maybe you shouldn't.

 

[Endymio]

In 2001 our inflation rate was 18% higher.

My figures were pulled from here:

MacroTrends: Europe Inflation Rates 1960-2022
US Inflation Rates by Year: 1929-2022

If you prefer your own site, let's use it. But let's not cherry pick times and places. Instead of 2001, lets move up one year and consider the entire world: (all figures from your site):

2002 Inflation Rates:
USA: 1.58%
Europe: 2.12%
Canada: 2.26%
Australia: 3.08%
India: 4.03%
Mexico: 5.03%
Israel: 5.76%
Columbia: 6.35%
Russia: 15.79%
Turkey: 44.9%

 

[scavengerspc]

My figures were pulled from here:

MacroTrends: Europe Inflation Rates 1960-2022
US Inflation Rates by Year: 1929-2022

If you prefer your own site, let's use it. But let's not cherry pick times and places. Instead of 2001, lets move up one year and consider the entire world: (all figures from your site):

2002 Inflation Rates:
USA: 1.58%
Europe: 2.12%
Canada: 2.26%
Australia: 3.08%
India: 4.03%
Mexico: 5.03%
Israel: 5.76%
Columbia: 6.35%
Russia: 15.79%
Turkey: 44.9%

Ok if I check those stats later will they be correct? You have wasted enough of my time already but I have to let you know I only trust official government or financial fact checked figures.

@Endymio Of course I know they are from that site as, yes, I posted it.
But you chose 1992-2001-2002, so please keep complaints of cherry-picking to yourself.

 

[Arbie]

I live in Az - and the biggest worry for any company moving here should be "unprecedented political conditions".

 

[scavengerspc]

My figures were pulled from here:

MacroTrends: Europe Inflation Rates 1960-2022
US Inflation Rates by Year: 1929-2022

If you prefer your own site, let's use it. But let's not cherry pick times and places. Instead of 2001, lets move up one year and consider the entire world: (all figures from your site):

2002 Inflation Rates:
USA: 1.58%
Europe: 2.12%
Canada: 2.26%
Australia: 3.08%
India: 4.03%
Mexico: 5.03%
Israel: 5.76%
Columbia: 6.35%
Russia: 15.79%
Turkey: 44.9%

In Commerce thread, you took it upon yourself to lie to me when you said:
"Wrong. I showed you -- with the data from your own site -- that the opposite was true."

Commerce secretary warns of deep recession if the US loses access to Taiwan-made chips

Following a Senate vote earlier this week where the $52 billion CHIPS bill advanced by 64-32, allowing it to move to the next stage, Raimondo talked to...

www.techspot.com

Even though you knew posts 8 and 9 in this thread showed you that your claims were mine earlier.
So here we go, and thanks to those folks that reminded me I had forgotten this thread.

Sources:

U.S. Inflation Calculator: 1635→2024, Department of Labor data

This inflation calculator uses the official US consumer price index and breaks down inflation by spending category. Enter any year since 1635 to adjust for inflation, measure change in purchasing power, and more.

www.officialdata.org

"This inflation calculator uses official records published by the U.S. Department of Labor."

€100 in 1997 → 2020 | Euro Inflation Calculator

This inflation calculator uses the official Eurozone consumer price index. An inflation rate of 1.67% per year means €100 in 1997 is worth €146.37 in 2020.

www.officialdata.org

Raw data for these calculations comes from the European Commission and the European Central Bank's Harmonized Index of Consumer prices (HICP)

Results:

The US - The dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.10% per year between 1997 and 2020, producing a cumulative price increase of 61.25%.

The EU - The euro had an average inflation rate of 1.67% per year between 1997 and 2020, producing a cumulative price increase of 46.37%.

Year over year is listed in the artice.

I also wanted to mention that my initial 8-10% came from going back over 100 years of data, but this is a time space we can relate to better.
Also, we were obviously must more competitive over the long stretch because we (the US) didn't almost go out of our way to print more money and run up deficits until fairly recently.

So the facts are this. The US always has slightly higher inflation rates than Europe.

COMING UP in a thread to named later!
With the 9+% inflation rate announced, guess who is faring even worse.
And guess what countries are doing even worse.

I will give a hint:
Anyone thinks our energy prices have gone up wildly? Well, they have, BUT:

Gas Prices in Europe Have Risen by 700 Percent in 2022, So Far

The price of natural gas in European countries has risen 700 percent so far in 2022, pushing the continent into recession, a report predicts.

www.telesurenglish.net

"Gas Prices in Europe Have Risen by 700 Percent in 2022, So Far"

And!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/gas-prices-around-the-world/

"Think U.S. gas prices are high?"

 

[Endymio]

The US - The dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.10% per year between 1997 and 2020...

Your original statement was that the US dollar has "always" had higher inflation than the rest of the world. To support that, you repeatedly compare it -- not to the world at large, but to the EU ... and the EU of the last 20 years. Yes, the formation of the ECB in 1998 has led to extremely conservative fiscal policy, and a complete reversal of Europe's situation before that. That doesn't make your statement correct.

Let's compare your average US inflation rate of 2.1% to the rest of the world, shall we? Data from your site, from 1997-2020:

Australia: 2.43%
United Kingdom: 2.72%
Chile: 3.24%
Iceland: 4.37%
Mexico: 5.49%
Brazil: 5.99%
India: 6.57%
Costa Rica: 7.0%
Indonesia: 8.78%
Turkey: 19.5%
Venezuela: 112% (no, that's not a typo)

Now, let's look at those EU nations **before** the formation of the ECB, shall we? All data from 1967-1997:

(USA: 5.37%)
France: 6.28%
Italy: 9.08%
Spain: 9.57%
Greece: 13.92%

So much for your theory that US inflation is "always" higher than the rest of the world, eh?

In Commerce thread, you took it upon yourself to lie to me when you said:
"Wrong. I showed you -- with the data from your own site -- that the opposite was true."

As you can clearly see, my statement was correct.

 

[scavengerspc]

Your original statement was that the US dollar has "always" had higher inflation than the rest of the world. To support that, you repeatedly compare it -- not to the world at large, but to the EU ... and the EU of the last 20 years. Yes, the formation of the ECB in 1998 has led to extremely conservative fiscal policy, and a complete reversal of Europe's situation before that. That doesn't make your statement correct.

Let's compare your average US inflation rate of 2.1% to the rest of the world, shall we? Data from your site, from 1997-2020:

Australia: 2.43%
United Kingdom: 2.72%
Chile: 3.24%
Iceland: 4.37%
Mexico: 5.49%
Brazil: 5.99%
India: 6.57%
Costa Rica: 7.0%
Indonesia: 8.78%
Turkey: 19.5%
Venezuela: 112% (no, that's not a typo)

Now, let's look at those EU nations **before** the formation of the ECB, shall we? All data from 1967-1997:

(USA: 5.37%)
France: 6.28%
Italy: 9.08%
Spain: 9.57%
Greece: 13.92%

So much for your theory that US inflation is "always" higher than the rest of the world, eh?

As you can clearly see, my statement was correct.

I've heard of nit-picking, but wow!
But, you are right, for the first time. I should have said ALMOST always or pretty much always.

The overall body of facts are 100% in my favor, so here you go.

The US almost always has higher inflation than Europe.

And if you took the time to go over the near 100 year history, you would find that my 8-10% numbers are right. I couldn't zero in because different methods of measure were in effect throughout the early 1900s because politicians were allowed to use those varying methods to fudge the figures.

And the beauty is the direct sources are listed. With the numbers. So anyone can quickly see I listed correct and factual information.

But I will repeat the direct quote from the stats of the governing bodies of each. Just for you:

"The US - The dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.10% per year between 1997 and 2020, producing a cumulative price increase of 61.25%."

"The EU - The euro had an average inflation rate of 1.67% per year between 1997 and 2020, producing a cumulative price increase of 46.37%."

 

[Endymio]

I should have said ALMOST always or pretty much always.

No, you should have said essentially never -- except in the one case of the EU, after the formation of the ECB. For the rest of the world as a whole, and even Europe prior to the formation of the ECB, the US is almost always significantly lower.

Also, even though I used data from the site you chose, I'm somewhat chary over its accuracy. The base page for the USA says this: "This inflation calculator uses official records published by the U.S. Department of Labor. Inflation has averaged 0.93% per year since 1635...."

Gas Prices in Europe Have Risen by 700 Percent in 2022, So Far"

That article is speaking of natural gas, not gasoline. That's what happens when you depend utterly on Russian natural gas pipelines, then have to start banning Russian imports. Seems Trump was right about that too, eh?

 

[scavengerspc]

No, you should have said essentially never -- except in the one case of the EU, after the formation of the ECB. For the rest of the world as a whole, and even Europe prior to the formation of the ECB, the US is almost always significantly lower.

Then do the math.

Also, even though I used data from the site you chose, I'm somewhat chary over its accuracy.

Of course you are. It's practically your job. Take it up with the U.S. Department of Labor. And Europe's Harmonized Index of Consumer prices (HICP).
In these economic times, I'm sure they can use the laugh.

No, you should have said essentially never

No. You should have said, oops!
U.S. Department of Labor. And Europe's Harmonized Index of Consumer prices (HICP) data from 1997 until 2020. How many times was the US inflation rate lower?

US on the left EU on the right
2020 1.23 2020 0.74%
2019 1.81 2019 1.47%
2018 2.44 2018 1.89%
2017 2.13 2017 1.71%
2016 1.26 2016 0.25%
2015 0.12 2015 0.03%
2014 1.62 2014 0.43%
2013 1.46 2013 1.35%
2012 2.07 2012 2.50%
2011 3.16 2011 2.72%
2010 1.64 2010 1.61%
2009 -0.36 2009 0.32%
2008 3.84 2008 3.34%
2007 2.85 2007 2.17%
2006 3.23 2006 2.21%
2005 3.39 2005 2.20%
2004 2.68 2004 2.18%
2003 2.27 2003 2.12%
2002 1.59 2002 2.27%
2001 2.83 2001 2.41%
2000 3.38 2000 2.18%
1999 2.19 1999 1.17%
1998 1.55 1998 1.23%
1997 2.33 1997 1.70%

 

[Endymio]

Take it up with the U.S. Department of Labor.

I wasn't aware the US Department of Labor was publishing data in the year 1635.

....from 1997 until 2020. How many times was the US inflation rate lower?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Let me repeat, with emphasis added: "The US inflation rate is almost never higher than the rest of the world -- except in the one case of the EU, only after the formation of the ECB.

 

[scavengerspc]

I wasn't aware the US Department of Labor was publishing data in the year 1635.

In 5 seconds, you could have found where relevant info came from. It's right at the bottom of the page.

Let me repeat, with emphasis added: "The US inflation rate is almost never higher than the rest of the world -- except in the one case of the EU, only after the formation of the ECB.

Not the world. My posts after the first were us compared to EU. Remember?
"The US almost always has higher inflation than Europe."

Note that I have constantly mentioned the HICP, and they have nothing to do with world data.
Now I can't hold this in any longer. Have you still not noticed that the ECB are the ones contributing to the figures? They are the ones getting reports from the HICP data: Remember earlier when I said "Raw data for these calculations comes from the European Commission and the European Central Bank's Harmonized Index of Consumer prices (HICP)"

Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices (HICP) is an indicator of inflation and price stability for the European Central Bank (ECB)."

Sources and citations are at the bottom.

And your time is up. In that 24-year period, the US has had a lower inflation rate only 3 times.

 

[Endymio]

In 5 seconds, you could have found where relevant info came from. It's right at the bottom of the page.

I believe you're missing the point. There was no "US inflation" in 1634" because there was no US; the dollar wouldn't even exist for another century and a half.

Not the world. My posts after the first were us compared to EU. Remember?

From your post #5, above: "We in the US almost always has 8-10% higher inflation numbers... Just look at the world economic situation, and even now our inflation numbers are a bit higher than most of the world...."

Furthermore, prior to the inception of the European Central Bank in 1998, even Europe had substantially higher inflation levels than the USA. As your own chosen data demonstrates.

 

[scavengerspc]

I believe you're missing the point. There was no "US inflation" in 1634" because there was no US; the dollar wouldn't even exist for another century and a half.

And I believe you still haven't read the authors explanation at the bottom of the page. I will never understand how you can comment on things you dont read.

"Raw data for these calculations comes from the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Price Index (CPI), established in 1913. Inflation data from 1634 to 1912 is sourced from a historical study conducted by political science professor Robert Sahr at Oregon State University and from the American Antiquarian Society.
You may use the following MLA citation for this page: “Inflation Calculator.” U.S. Official Inflation Data, Alioth Finance, 23 Jul. 2022, https://www.officialdata.org/."

From your post #5, above: "We in the US almost always has 8-10% higher inflation numbers... Just look at the world economic situation, and even now our inflation numbers are a bit higher than most of the world...."

I already told you I have been talking about the EU since. But, I have not checked up on that, so maybe you can help me here. What nations have a higher inflation rate than we do?

Furthermore, prior to the inception of the European Central Bank in 1998, even Europe had substantially higher inflation levels than the USA. As your own chosen data demonstrates.

My chosen data is factual data, so show some respect for someone that checks and double-checks the facts. They are there, and many times.

But, can you give me your links where I can see Europe's inflation rate before the bank in the late 90s? It's obvious you have been getting it from somewhere.

 

[Endymio]

I have not checked up on that, so maybe you can help me here. What nations have a higher inflation rate than we do? ....Can you give me your links where I can see Europe's inflation rate before the bank in the late 90s?

Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. I already gave multiple examples, in post #17 and #13, one using your site and data, the other using mine. Can you not read?