Nvidia doesn't need us anymore: How is the GeForce RTX 3080 12GB launching to zero reviews

Strawman

Posts: 437   +238
Profits are also a reflection of supply and demand - by deliberately limiting supply you can drive up the price and make more profit per unit. This is not an example of a free market at work but of deliberate market manipulation. The "free market" may always be right but this market is not a free one.
No, that is actually the definition of a free market. There is a point after which creating more products loses a company money. Are you suggesting a company that wants to maximize profits to not maximize its profits? Why?
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,705   +6,515
I can see many people don't understand the difference between "the free market" and "government manipulated markets" or "crony capitalism".

Whatever...it doesn't stop the facts from being the facts.
 

tellmewhy

Posts: 141   +67
I think in Nvidia in long term they try to keep all the markets (gaming, datacenters, miners) healthy. Maybe these days they worry about gaming market because there is a computational gap which may lead to problems in the evolution of games so because of that they try to “hide” the card from the miners so the gamers can have time to buy it. If they want positive reviews the least effective way to that is to upset the reviewers with delays. If they want short term profits why to suspend the demand with hash limiters?
They just can’t support the whole booming demand and they try unorthodox moves to keep all markets healthy in long term. The most common and simple way is to collect as much money they can and in the next run improve the supply chain. But they like unorthodox moves.

If there is excessive demand even if Nvidia sell the cards for 1$ some they will see the demand and will buy them as fast as possible and they will start selling them at the price the market is willing to buy them. In the opposite if there was a hypothetical bug and the cards while they were working normally occasionally start to explode at 20% rate inside the cases even if they give them free nobody will want to take them and risk to loose all the hardware inside the case from the explosion. If they can’t print more chips there is nothing else that can be done, if there is excessive demand the price will go higher.

The customers they have the right to buy products for whatever reason they want and do whatever they want with them. If 1000 millionaires they want to buy 100 cards each one just to play Jenga (with the cards not in a videogame) it’s their right.
 
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Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,207   +1,065
I couldn’t care less about Nvidia delaying a review. The reviews are still going to come out. And it’s not as if we have a competitor to turn to if for some strange reason you do care about Nvidia delaying a day one review. Sure it sucks for Techspot but users buying the card not on day one are unaffected. Considering that these cards aren’t even being listed at retailers, I can’t see how it’s much of an “anti-consumer” move. The consumers are basically going to be 100% miners who will pay more than gamers will regardless. They also whinge less.

This is the thing, Nvidia have an effective monopoly. People will scream all these nasty things about Nvidia but as soon as availability comes back people will continue to buy the cards.

We desperately need a competitor, I have given up on the festering dung heap that is Radeon at this point but Intel could do it, here’s hoping!
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,998   +5,515
The interesting part is how that interfaces with this release: for Nvidia, the ideal strategy would be that they just have the "3080" brand that's it: no qualifiers or models. The way cloud provisioning works means that as long as they have that expectation as a brand they can provision either lower: 3070 levels of performance for games that just don't require a 3080 to max out the framerate is even possible with video streaming on the service, to possibly even more efficient with 3090/ti or RX class GPUs that use paravirtualization to dynamically assign as much performance as is needed so when someone runs Cyberpunk 2077 then yes dedicate almost all of it but if 4 other customers are just playing Fortnite at the same time you can serve them all with a single 3090 and still sell the service as "3080 experience" if they ever want to launch and play 2077 or Control or some of the really heavy Ray Tracing titles.

So the move to cloud, even if it's not directly through Nvidia and it's just on AWS or Azure or any current or future providers that leverage "cloud based" compute, the idea is that you can save a lot of money while still charging customers a premium subscription to access that "3080" experience of 4k Ray Tracing + Insert-future-buzzword-Nvidia-will-probably-introduce and so on.

This way Nvidia can make a lot of money from customers, more reliably through subscriptions, while serving data centers instead so not really a consumer product anymore
The company I work for does something similar with their professional software. In fact, my portion of the software is GPU intensive. While the software I work on performs well, for an application running in the cloud, it performs nowhere near as well as it does running directly on my development machine with 2, Quadro cards.

There are several variables in a cloud-architecture that contribute. A big one is how fast is the internet connection. While a cloud service may be wonderful for some, IMO, paying a monthly price to rely on what may ultimately be a dodgy service, due to whatever outages may crop up, is not worth it. In time, those monthly fees will add up to the cost of a dedicated GPU for a PC - to me, its essentially the same argument surrounding renting an apartment vs buying a home.

Given nWeedia's past, you can bet that they will be slow to upgrade service, or that if they do upgrade service, prices will invariably go up.
 

fadingfool

Posts: 250   +314
No, that is actually the definition of a free market. There is a point after which creating more products loses a company money. Are you suggesting a company that wants to maximize profits to not maximize its profits? Why?
I'm suggesting that with a market that only has 2-3 players can never be a "free" market. Too easy to collude and control a market when you are dominant and can control the price.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 918   +1,747
MWahahahahahaha!

Hey, all of the reviewers gladly keep taking nvidia moneis and keep shoving them down our throats and now that you are not needed, you cry...

See how every single stupid youtube video always, always have a nvidia gpu in plain view and how none of these youtubers dare in calling nvidia cr@p out.

Always skirting around the subject.

I will love to see one, just ONE good video of someone calling and pointing out all the ilegal, anti-consumer and anti-open standard cr@p that nvidia has done.
 

rrwards

Posts: 218   +407
Do you have this speech on file and saved somewhere? Because it's getting pretty damned repetitive, tedious, and boring.

I can hear you thinking to yourself, "hm, another article about high prices, and scarce availability, time for the big copy and paste about the 'free market always being right'".

BTW, how are your "two 3090's" running? I'm sure "inquiring minds want to know". (y) (Y) .

Lol agreed. Still confused how this free market libertarian zealot can also keep calling for the government to regulate or shut down all crypto. I thought the market was always right lol
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,031   +4,391
MWahahahahahaha!

Hey, all of the reviewers gladly keep taking nvidia moneis and keep shoving them down our throats and now that you are not needed, you cry...

See how every single stupid youtube video always, always have a nvidia gpu in plain view and how none of these youtubers dare in calling nvidia cr@p out.

Always skirting around the subject.

I will love to see one, just ONE good video of someone calling and pointing out all the ilegal, anti-consumer and anti-open standard cr@p that nvidia has done.
Hardware unboxed was banned from receive Nvidia cards until the received backlash from the review community. LTT and GamersNexus are constantly calling nVidia on their BS. Also, reviews don't get paid for their reviews, there send review samples. The "payment" is from ad revenue brought to their website from clicks and views.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 918   +1,747
Hardware unboxed was banned from receive Nvidia cards until the received backlash from the review community. LTT and GamersNexus are constantly calling nVidia on their BS. Also, reviews don't get paid for their reviews, there send review samples. The "payment" is from ad revenue brought to their website from clicks and views.
I saw the so called videos of angry Linus and others.

If you really think that they called out Nvidia, you really need to do a lot more reading.

And the best part is, that after the "ban" HU simply continued with more and more videos with nvidia hardware.

But please, do read my post again, since you skimped over.
 

Strawman

Posts: 437   +238
I'm suggesting that with a market that only has 2-3 players can never be a "free" market. Too easy to collude and control a market when you are dominant and can control the price.
Well, that applies to first need products. GPUs are not that. People can just...stick to their 970 or 1080 or whatever GPU they happen to have until nvidia goes belly under. People choose to pay the money asked, so yeah, it's free market.
 

envirovore

Posts: 344   +669
TechSpot Elite
AMD fans were screaming for years about how important the memory and 10GB on 3080 and 6GB on RTX 2060 is not enough

They released 12GB version for both cards and it barely make any difference on average. So in other words, the original memory size was enough for these cards

It's more about the memory bus width with these 12GB 3080's over the 10GB 3080's. 912GB/s over 700 something...that'll make a decent difference.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,031   +4,391
I saw the so called videos of angry Linus and others.

If you really think that they called out Nvidia, you really need to do a lot more reading.

And the best part is, that after the "ban" HU simply continued with more and more videos with nvidia hardware.

But please, do read my post again, since you skimped over.
I don't think you're as involved in the tech community as you'd have me believe.

Hardware reviews is how many of these people make their money. My boss is an ******* but that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job and stop paying my bills. nVidia isn't that hardware equivalent of Hitler.

If you want all reviewers to ban nVidia hardware reviews just take a look at what nVidia did and how pointless it would be. This whole article is about how nVidia doesn't need reviewers to help sell it's products because they know they're going to be sold out anyway.

Your post was short and the article was long. I suggest to take a full read at the article.

I would like to remind you the backlash from the "so called videos of angry linus and others" the Hardware unboxed incident did make a different and nVidia started giving them review samples again
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,031   +4,391
It's more about the memory bus width with these 12GB 3080's over the 10GB 3080's. 912GB/s over 700 something...that'll make a decent difference.
The extra memory is good for future proofing cards for 4k. I play at 4k on my 8GB 1070ti and my memory is almsot always full even at low settings. I use a TV as a monitor so the only way to get low latency is to run at its native resolution.
 

envirovore

Posts: 344   +669
TechSpot Elite
The extra memory is good for future proofing cards for 4k. I play at 4k on my 8GB 1070ti and my memory is almsot always full even at low settings. I use a TV as a monitor so the only way to get low latency is to run at its native resolution.

FWIW, I'd buy one of these new 12GB 3080 models over my 10GB one if I could. Also use a 4K tv for monitor and while the 10GB 3080 is plenty capable currently, I'm thinking more long term use though. That extra 2GB and especially faster memory bus will pay off.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 918   +1,747
I don't think you're as involved in the tech community as you'd have me believe.

Hardware reviews is how many of these people make their money. My boss is an ******* but that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job and stop paying my bills. nVidia isn't that hardware equivalent of Hitler.

If you want all reviewers to ban nVidia hardware reviews just take a look at what nVidia did and how pointless it would be. This whole article is about how nVidia doesn't need reviewers to help sell it's products because they know they're going to be sold out anyway.

Your post was short and the article was long. I suggest to take a full read at the article.

I would like to remind you the backlash from the "so called videos of angry linus and others" the Hardware unboxed incident did make a different and nVidia started giving them review samples again
Honestly, I dont care.

If interested, you can google all the cr@p they have done.

If you want, you can really pay attention to what I said, instead of just trying to look at this particular article.

I was very broad about what I said, not just this particular instance and the main point stand, no youtuber will ever make a video about ALL the dirty cr@p that nvidia has done and continue doing.

But if you do feel like reading for that future video, here is something someone wrote and you can start from there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDGPU/comments/oh7dz6
 
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waclark

Posts: 204   +109
Profits are also a reflection of supply and demand - by deliberately limiting supply you can drive up the price and make more profit per unit. This is not an example of a free market at work but of deliberate market manipulation. The "free market" may always be right but this market is not a free one.
Possibly, however, there seems to be a world-wide chip shortage. So, I can't say for certain, but maybe the shortages are due to lack of components. I know car dealers are feeling this pain. I recently bought a new vehicle and inventory on the showroom floors was minimal and even some new cars are being built without standard features because they can't get the parts. The SUV I bought had a "credit" for lacking the keyless entry for the back hatch. They simply couldn't get the foot sensor needed to automatically open the rear hatch.
 

umbala

Posts: 516   +883
I can see many people don't understand the difference between "the free market" and "government manipulated markets" or "crony capitalism".

Whatever...it doesn't stop the facts from being the facts.
You keep making this ridiculous nonsense argument practically every week. Yes, there's no such thing as "free market" or "free will", everything is preordained! Get your tinfoil hats now! $5 each!
 

theruck

Posts: 487   +301
good for techspot too. now they shall no more pretend they are objective and can go all in with AMD
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 410   +472
This is the strongest media criticism on Nvidia yet. Huge respect to Steve and TS for publishing this, because Nvidia IS one of, if not the most consumer unfriendly outfits in the PC Hardware / gaming community, and it's high time the media started advocating for consumers. Today is just the lastest day in a long and sorry history of doing everything in their power to drive up prices and stifle everyone else's innovation.

They may as well be sending their products off to Crypto media outlets for review, for all the good these products will do for gaming.