Russian tanks are using chips from household appliances due to sanctions

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McMurdeR

Posts: 616   +850
Nope. USA government is as aggressive as Russian government. With superpowers around we will never live in peace. The problem is even deeper, because the presence of governments ruins our happiness. Why should we need a government? We are not children.

Nonsense. The US government, depending on who is in power, is reactive, not proactively agressive. They haven't always got it right, but they are not expansionalist, and they allow, and even welcome discourse. You're comparing apples to oranges, and it's the usual cop out for apologists to Putin's regime in Russia.
 

kinetix

Posts: 57   +46
I love how everyone thinks they know what’s going on in the Ukraine right now. The fact is we have no idea and we only read propaganda, this story is exactly that. It’s a story designed to show the Ukraine in a positive light and Russia as losing. The Russians have clearly had success in attacking but the media doesn’t report it when it happens.

But the fact is the Russians are not a simple nation. They have advanced technology, I mean their space programme has almost always been ahead of the Americans (with exception to the Apollo programme).

Just remember that since the war started, western nations have paid Putin 30x as much for oil and gas than they have spent on military aid for the Ukraine. The western hypocrisy is strong here. I’m even willing to bet most Europeans would rather see the Ukraine fall than pay more for their energy.

exactly. remember. everything we see, we see it because someone wants us to see it, and the way they want us to see it.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,315   +965
Well Russia is withdrawing from Ukraine's second biggest city - so another city deNazified and more victory for Russian .

My one cent .
Russia has a problem in equipment and man power - They are running out of smart , high tech weapons , a high failure rate in ordinance and tanks etc . Plus a Army with no conviction except to collect paycheck - they will happily fire artillery into the sea or open fields if instructed - job done , pay collected - successful operation .

Ukraine's main problem is pressing need to transfer over western artillery .
They have enough USSR artillery/tanks - but not enough shells - Poland and other former Soviet Bloc countries are sending their artillery shells - but they don't have the mass supply Russian has .
So they won't fire on open fields with no targets etc .
Russian has wasted huge amounts on schools. hospitals , hospitals as QP rejoices ( hey Grandpa whose side were you on ? - oh the killers, rapists the fascists )

So Ukraine desperately needs lots of 155mm Howitzers etc - as USA probably as enough shells to feed them endlessly.
The good thing is 1 155mm shell equals 10 Russian shells - as go further , more accurately and quicker targeted response . Some Russian units still using pen and paper
I.e. western Artillery has a much higher success rate .
Russia won't invade Finland - Finnish gunners are much more skillful than Ukrainians - they have been preparing for Russian invasion for 70 years - Russians would be slaughtered - Finland has underground bunkers for 4 Million people -( most impervious to general nuclear weapons ) ie not ground bunker busting ones
 

RudyBob

Posts: 830   +840
Liberal media: Ukraine is doing well - Russia is losing

REALITY: Europe is suffering. Russia is flattening Ukraine.
Lot more suffering then the Europeans. They hitched to Russia and their energy when the US was footing the bill for their safety. Who knows what that money was really used for. The Europeans can go to heck. They are not suffering. The combatants and caught in the middle civilians are suffering.
 

kinetix

Posts: 57   +46
Silly article. The ability to dual purpose appliance electronics for weapons is actually a plus. If you can fix a tank with a washing machine chip, that's fantastic. Rather than ordering a new $10,000 motherboard for your Abrams tank or Apache helicopter.

This concept of 'US technology' is nonsense. How much of your computer was built in the US? Not much.

Western elites have shot themselves in the gonads, deftly removing not one but both. They not only stole $300 billion in Russian assets but most major corporations like MS, Boeing, Apple have defaulted on their Russian support contracts. That will force Russia to nationalize their intellectual property. Russia literally has no choice. So Russia will probably reverse engineer Windows, iPhone, and many other Western products. The revenue lost to the West probably amounts to trillions of dollars. For more tech heavy stuff, Russia will just go to China directly. And Russia will develop their own products.

But the bottom line is this. In any protracted standoff, Russia will win. The West simply doesn't have enough energy or food. Russian gas is dirt cheap, around $2.65 / gallon or 0.7 Euro / liter.
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Russia/gasoline_prices/

I'm not saying this is good. I'm merely pointing out the ignorance of Western pundits who think Russia is a backward, stupid nation. Putin is extremely smart. This move has been planned for decades. It will result in a profound restructuring in the global pecking order.
I once read that since WW II and encouraged by the cold war, the USSR/Russia dedicated much of its industry to dual-purpose production. Regarding the cost and complexity, I have seen some expensive military hardware modules from some US companies, with an i7 inside, what these modules are used for could well have been a simple and cheap ARM chip. In addition, in military equipment, as in space technology, much basic electronics and older manufacturing systems are used, BUT VERY tested and certified. Even in modern aircraft I think that the most advanced chips are the one in charge of drawing on the multifunction displays (and those and the rest could fail, so, classic analog instruments are still keep as backup). for example, in radars, most of the processing is solving direct and inverse Fourier Transforms and that is currently solved without too much complexity. I have seen many industrial systems built with Altera or Xilinx FPGAs and some ASICs, the rest, pretty simple but rugged electronics.
 
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brucek

Posts: 1,297   +1,926
exactly. remember. everything we see, we see it because someone wants us to see it, and the way they want us to see it.
True. Although what has changed, is that there are a lot more "someones" who are able to choose what they want to show. Once upon a time it was maybe only a few networks. Now anyone with a phone can be a primary source, and anyone with an internet connection can be the "journalist" who aggregates that data and adds their opinion and analysis.

Using the old the forest and trees analogy - while the detail on any tree could be pretty far off, it's getting harder and harder to convince people of a whole fake forest. At least for those people who live in countries that don't believe in blatant censorship.
 

Tantor

Posts: 374   +645
Europe is actually replacing that. There was no need earlier as Europe was trying to treat Russia as commercial partner, and it was beneficial for two sides, but now this will be replaced very quickly in most of the europe, with Hungary probably being the slowest as they really like authoritarian approach and were leaning towards russia for years.
So no worries, Europe will become more united and less dependant, and russia - will be bought by China quickly.

I don't think so... Germany gets over 65% of their combined gas and petroleum imports from Russia. How are they going to replace that? LNG tankers and gas trucks are not a feasible solution.
 

brucek

Posts: 1,297   +1,926
Not sure if it was a copy/paste issue or a TechSpot bug, but the quote above being attributed to me was not something I said. It looks like it was dangh's contribution, unless that's bugged too.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 616   +850
I love how everyone thinks they know what’s going on in the Ukraine right now. The fact is we have no idea and we only read propaganda, this story is exactly that. It’s a story designed to show the Ukraine in a positive light and Russia as losing. The Russians have clearly had success in attacking but the media doesn’t report it when it happens.

But the fact is the Russians are not a simple nation. They have advanced technology, I mean their space programme has almost always been ahead of the Americans (with exception to the Apollo programme).

Just remember that since the war started, western nations have paid Putin 30x as much for oil and gas than they have spent on military aid for the Ukraine. The western hypocrisy is strong here. I’m even willing to bet most Europeans would rather see the Ukraine fall than pay more for their energy.

We know what's going on in Ukraine. Our media isn't dictated by the state. We know that it's the Russian regime and military who has brutally assaulted Ukraine and its people.

The Soviet Space programme was indeed impressive, especially in the 60's. Where is all that Russian technical prowess on the battlefield today? They've been embassaed by Ukrainians with low level western weaponry.

As for western energy, it's expensive, uncomfortable and inconvinient, but they'll manage. It's not the first energy crisis they've been through.
 

MyIOnU

Posts: 128   +291
So much fake news that soon people do not know what is real or not. They sound like Russia were out of tanks that they had to build new tanks using household appliance parts lol.
 

Tantor

Posts: 374   +645
I once read that since WW II and encouraged by the cold war, the USSR/Russia dedicated much of its industry to dual-purpose production. Regarding the cost and complexity, I have seen some expensive military hardware modules from some US companies, with an i7 inside, what these modules are used for could well have been a simple and cheap ARM chip. In addition, in military equipment, as in space technology, much basic electronics and older manufacturing systems are used, BUT VERY tested and certified. Even in modern aircraft I think that the most advanced chips are the one in charge of drawing on the multifunction displays. for example, in radars, most of the processing is solving direct and inverse Fourier Transforms and that is currently solved without too much complexity. I have seen many industrial systems built with Altera or Xilinx FPGAs and some ASICs, the rest, pretty simple but rugged electronics.
Interesting. It makes sense that the computing demands for military equipment are not that high. And that reliability is the most important factor. Every now and then I think about the Apollo project in the 1960's. Or the nuclear propulsion systems in US Navy ships. Much of that design work was done with slide rules.
 

Tantor

Posts: 374   +645
We know what's going on in Ukraine. Our media isn't dictated by the state. We know that it's the Russian regime and military who has brutally assaulted Ukraine and its people.

The Soviet Space programme was indeed impressive, especially in the 60's. Where is all that Russian technical prowess on the battlefield today? They've been embassaed by Ukrainians with low level western weaponry.

As for western energy, it's expensive, uncomfortable and inconvinient, but they'll manage. It's not the first energy crisis they've been through.

There is no 'Ukraine and its people'. That's an oxymoron.
Half of the Ukraine is ethnically Russian. Much of the Russian army is actually citizen militia from Eastern Ukraine.

Russia invaded because the Ukrainian government has engaged in relentless attacks on Russian ethnics in the East of Ukraine. They killed over 14,000 Eastern Ukrainians over since 2014. This is WELL documented.
 

kinetix

Posts: 57   +46
Well Russia is withdrawing from Ukraine's second biggest city - so another city deNazified and more victory for Russian .

My one cent .
Russia has a problem in equipment and man power - They are running out of smart , high tech weapons , a high failure rate in ordinance and tanks etc . Plus a Army with no conviction except to collect paycheck - they will happily fire artillery into the sea or open fields if instructed - job done , pay collected - successful operation .

Ukraine's main problem is pressing need to transfer over western artillery .
They have enough USSR artillery/tanks - but not enough shells - Poland and other former Soviet Bloc countries are sending their artillery shells - but they don't have the mass supply Russian has .
So they won't fire on open fields with no targets etc .
Russian has wasted huge amounts on schools. hospitals , hospitals as QP rejoices ( hey Grandpa whose side were you on ? - oh the killers, rapists the fascists )

So Ukraine desperately needs lots of 155mm Howitzers etc - as USA probably as enough shells to feed them endlessly.
The good thing is 1 155mm shell equals 10 Russian shells - as go further , more accurately and quicker targeted response . Some Russian units still using pen and paper
I.e. western Artillery has a much higher success rate .
Russia won't invade Finland - Finnish gunners are much more skillful than Ukrainians - they have been preparing for Russian invasion for 70 years - Russians would be slaughtered - Finland has underground bunkers for 4 Million people -( most impervious to general nuclear weapons ) ie not ground bunker busting ones
well, the pictures and videos of the M777s howitzers while being loaded onto the planes for transport, and the first ones that have been published of their use, show that those delivered are the basic version, without the ballistic computer, so basically, paper and pencil. and I think I have read that the barrel is the light model, which suffers more wear and tear and less shoots with longer range munition.
As for the accuracy of the shells, who knows if they were issued M982s and/or M1156 PGKs (these use GPS). Although Ukraine has (or had?) a type of laser-guided ammunition before the war. the Russians have the laser-guided Krasnopol shell and some similar heavy mortar shells. The issue is that the GPS can be jammed/spoofed, and the laser blocked/disrupted and/or the emitter destroyed.
About the range, unless they have M982 shells in some improved version (40km), the maximum range is about the same than the Russian artillery, 25-30km. If the Russians deploy their modernized self-propelled artillery, their range is over 40 km (maybe even 80 km, depending on the projectile)
 
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kinetix

Posts: 57   +46
Much of the Russian army is actually citizen militia from Eastern Ukraine.
You are right about the militias. About 45 thousand of the units involved are the Donesk and Lugansk militias (with the help of Chechen units). The majority of Russian forces in direct combat are mainly in the north of the front (from Izum to Severodonesk) and in the south (alone in Kershon, and together with Donesk militias north of Mariupol). where the militia is fighting the role of the RAF seems to be mostly artillery and air support.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
Nonsense. The US government, depending on who is in power, is reactive, not proactively agressive. They haven't always got it right, but they are not expansionalist, and they allow, and even welcome discourse. You're comparing apples to oranges, and it's the usual cop out for apologists to Putin's regime in Russia.
Not so. Look deep into the history and who was behind the Colored Revolutions in eastern Europe and then look into such organizations as Charter '97 (Belarus), Maidan Revolution along with who's behind building NATO bases in Ukraine. There's more but that should be enough to put you on the right path.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
There is no 'Ukraine and its people'. That's an oxymoron.
Half of the Ukraine is ethnically Russian. Much of the Russian army is actually citizen militia from Eastern Ukraine.

Russia invaded because the Ukrainian government has engaged in relentless attacks on Russian ethnics in the East of Ukraine. They killed over 14,000 Eastern Ukrainians over since 2014. This is WELL documented.
Russia invaded eastern Ukraine and illegally annexed the Crimea along with parts of the Donbass in 2014.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
Lot more suffering then the Europeans. They hitched to Russia and their energy when the US was footing the bill for their safety. Who knows what that money was really used for. The Europeans can go to heck. They are not suffering. The combatants and caught in the middle civilians are suffering.
This ^^ other than the Brits, western Europe on the whole is worthless when it comes to defending anyone's turf. They have shown it time and again starting with WW2 and afterwards the war in Yugoslavia when the Dutch army handed over thousands of Bosnians to the Serbs in order to save their own skin knowing that the chances of mass murder where an odds on favorite.
 

Axeia

Posts: 46   +45
Meanwhile the American army has some equipment they're not even allowed to service themselves. Seems like Russia has the right to repair aspect covered at least if they can get tanks working with household appliance parts.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
Meanwhile the American army has some equipment they're not even allowed to service themselves. Seems like Russia has the right to repair aspect covered at least if they can get tanks working with household appliance parts.
Simplicity has always been a plus with Russian tanks dating back to WW2. The German tanks had the Russian tanks beat in just about every aspect other than being able to repair them out in the field and that cost the Germans big time.
 

RudyBob

Posts: 830   +840
Simplicity has always been a plus with Russian tanks dating back to WW2. The German tanks had the Russian tanks beat in just about every aspect other than being able to repair them out in the field and that cost the Germans big time.
Good but those T 34's were as good as any German tank
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,180   +8,328
Good but those T 34's were as good as any German tank
It's not a matter of "my tank's better than yours". It's a matter of not having spare parts, or gas for das panzers. Germany's supply lines were so far over stretched, operation Barbarossa was doomed from the start.

In fact, Atari had a 2600 game titled "Western Front". You could play it anyway you damned well pleased, and the west always lost.

In other trivia, part of the reason that the Allies finally won the air war, was the fact we straight up had better, higher octane, av gas. This enabled more boost to be put to our superchargers. More boost, more horsepower, it's as simple as that.

In the Pacific theater, the F4-U "Corsair", had an 11 to 1 kill ratio.
 
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Beerfloat

Posts: 522   +994
There is no 'Ukraine and its people'. That's an oxymoron.
Half of the Ukraine is ethnically Russian. Much of the Russian army is actually citizen militia from Eastern Ukraine.

The people who voted for Ukrainian independence say there's a Ukraine and its people.
They didn't invite the Russians to drop by and waste everyone's time. What does anyone being an 'ethnic Russian' even matter?
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,838   +1,909
If a self-proclaimed superpower taking (thus far) 2 months and 3 weeks for an invasion without even capturing the Ukrainian capitol is 'flattening'... Then sure!
The United States spent 20 years fighting in Afghanistan -- one of the most primitive nations on earth -- and still couldn't pacify it entirely. And that was without the Taliban receiving advanced weaponry and real-time satellite intelligence from a dozen other nations.
 
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