So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[teklord]

According to GPUReview.com, when you underclock both the PCI-E versions of the 8600GT & the 9500GT to equal their PCI mem clock speeds (800 MHz), the 9500GT has a marginal edge over the 8600GT, so this mostly like means the PCI 9500GT is better than the 8600GT PCI as well. The PCI-E 8600GT has better stats than the 9400GT PCI-E when both are set at the PCI mem clock speeds of 800 MHz however, but since the 8600GT PCI is vaporware, that issue is moot at the moment.

As for the 9500GT PCI ever showing up, the 7300GT was inferior to the 8500GT PCI, so there was no point in releasing that product, but they released the 8400GS instead for those that didn't want to pay for the 8500GT performance level. Since the 9500GT is superior in stats to the 9400GT and the 8600GT, I would say it's not impossible for the 9500GT PCI to come out, but if the stats are identical to the 9400GT, then there is no point and I don't know why they mentioned it in the first place.

Since the ATi 4550 is 64-bit bus interface, that card is not in my purview as the 64-bit bandwidth keeps it from being the clear cut favorite unless a GPU-Z shot proves otherwise. We probably won't see a card like the 9800GT translated into the PCI bus type as those cards require an extra power connector, so they probably would not go past a 9600GT.

Also a big Congratulation! goes out to General for taking the big step of finally upgrading his classic CPU.

 

[LinkedKube]

According to GPUReview.com, when you underclock both the PCI-E versions of the 8600GT & the 9500GT to equal their PCI mem clock speeds (800 MHz), the 9500GT has a marginal edge over the 8600GT, so this mostly like means the PCI 9500GT is better than the 8600GT PCI as well. The PCI-E 8600GT has better stats than the 9400GT PCI-E when both are set at the PCI mem clock speeds of 800 MHz however, but since the 8600GT PCI is vaporware, that issue is moot at the moment.

As for the 9500GT PCI ever showing up, the 7300GT was inferior to the 8500GT PCI, so there was no point in releasing that product, but they released the 8400GS instead for those that didn't want to pay for the 8500GT performance level. Since the 9500GT is superior in stats to the 9400GT and the 8600GT, I would say it's not impossible for the 9500GT PCI to come out, but if the stats are identical to the 9400GT, then there is no point and I don't know why they mentioned it in the first place.

Since the ATi 4550 is 64-bit bus interface, that card is not in my purview as the 64-bit bandwidth keeps it from being the clear cut favorite unless a GPU-Z shot proves otherwise. We probably won't see a card like the 9800GT translated into the PCI bus type as those cards require an extra power connector, so they probably would not go past a 9600GT.

Also a big Congratulation! goes out to General for taking the big step of finally upgrading his classic CPU.

So what does he get if he upgrades to a core 2 duo rig? Presidential Candidate.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

General, which are you going to get the 1Ghz or 1.4 with adapter.

It's either/or.

 

[hrlow2]

to ThaGeneral
What socket are you going with? If you can use them, I have 2 P4s 1.7GHz socket 478 that you can have,free of charge.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

He's using socket 370. P4's aren't compatible.

 

[hrlow2]

Sorry. Just got back to here. Must have missed it Thanks.

 

[Tha General]

General, which are you going to get the 1Ghz or 1.4 with adapter.

It's either/or.

I told one of my brothers to buy one of the 1ghz one. Should i tell him to get the 1.4ghz, btw are sure i need one of the adpaters ?
Like this:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6485/i88990selleradaptor0ul.jpg

One i get the chip, or whatever, what happens with that big looking sliver block, am i suppose to remove it?

Since the ATi 4550 is 64-bit bus interface, that card is not in my purview as the 64-bit bandwidth keeps it from being the clear cut favorite unless a GPU-Z shot proves otherwise.

64bit cards is just fine. They seem to get the job done

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Yes if you were to get the 1.4Ghz chip, you would need an adaper.

One on ebay is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Slocket-Convert...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

And note that the 1.4Ghz is actually a Celeron that has the same cache as the older PIIIs.

One on ebay is here::
http://cgi.ebay.com/Celeron-1-4Ghz-...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:15|39:1|240:1318

In either case you're going to need thermal paste 1Ghz or 1.4Ghz, that is unless someone is doing this for you professionally. They should have some themselves.

The "big silver block" is the heatsink.

 

[LinkedKube]

Yes if you were to get the 1.4Ghz chip, you would need an adaper.

One on ebay is here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Slocket-Convert...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

And note that the 1.4Ghz is actually a Celeron that has the same cache as the older PIIIs.

One on ebay is here::
http://cgi.ebay.com/Celeron-1-4Ghz-...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:15|39:1|240:1318

In either case you're going to need thermal paste 1Ghz or 1.4Ghz, that is unless someone is doing this for you professionally. They should have some themselves.

The "big silver block" is the heatsink.

lol if you dont know what a heatsink is you shouldnt be touching it.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Pretty much.

Bring it somewhere.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Also, general, if you can get the 8600GT, that would be the card to keep. No sense in getting another 8400GT if you can get the 8600. The 9500 would be best if it somehow came out. Did you get an 8600 yet or are you having as much trouble finding one as everyone else?

In either case, what version drivers are you using? The newest versions (181.xx) have given all 8 and 9 series a fair boost in most games.

As for the power supply, its really hard for me to see whether a different unit will fit by looking at a picture. When you bring your computer in to have the processor put in, you should ask the guy what might fit. From the looks of it, it seems the PSU is a micro ATX or Flex ATX. As for wattage, I'd shoot for nothing less than 250W, preferably 300 or above. That'll ensure you never have any power related issues with that computer as long as you have it.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Also, I'd go to Gateway's site, put in your serial number and see if there's a BIOS update for your motherboard.

 

[LinkedKube]

Also, general, if you can get the 8600GT, that would be the card to keep. No sense in getting another 8400GT if you can get the 8600. The 9500 would be best if it somehow came out. Did you get an 8600 yet or are you having as much trouble finding one as everyone else?

In either case, what version drivers are you using? The newest versions (181.xx) have given all 8 and 9 series a fair boost in most games.

As for the power supply, its really hard for me to see whether a different unit will fit by looking at a picture. When you bring your computer in to have the processor put in, you should ask the guy what might fit. From the looks of it, it seems the PSU is a micro ATX or Flex ATX. As for wattage, I'd shoot for nothing less than 250W, preferably 300 or above. That'll ensure you never have any power related issues with that computer as long as you have it.

The updates wont effect those cards too much. The bandwidth restricted pci slots is mostly the reason.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I'm not so sure, seeing as a big perk of those drivers is that they reduce the load on the CPU.

In the case of a PIII that's something.

 

[Tha General]

In either case you're going to need thermal paste 1Ghz or 1.4Ghz, that is unless someone is doing this for you professionally. They should have some themselves.

I will called gateway soon and ask them about how high can i go, but most i am going to go with the 1.4ghz or both. Just in case one fails lol. But yea someone is going put everything in for me. And i will watch , so i can learn on my own.

Also, general, if you can get the 8600GT, that would be the card to keep. No sense in getting another 8400GT if you can get the 8600.

I am not buying the 8600gt, the last PCI card i buy for my p3 is the evga 8400gs. The 8400gs requires less power from the 8600gt. So the evga 8400gs will be my last PCI card i buy for this computer.

Did you get an 8600 yet or are you having as much trouble finding one as everyone else?

I know where to get all these new pci cards, however i haven't travel there yet to buy any. But for my new computer, the secondary one when i buy it, i am buying a 8600gt or one of the 9 series cards for it.

In either case, what version drivers are you using? The newest versions (181.xx) have given all 8 and 9 series a fair boost in most games.

I don't have the 8 series card yet.

Also, I'd go to Gateway's site, put in your serial number and see if there's a BIOS update for your motherboard.

The bios says 2000 lol, my bios version on my p3 is 4/4/2000, i don't think there is a more up to date bios.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I will called gateway soon and ask them about how high can i go.

Don't bother. Any company's stance is that any of these computer models that would need an adapter don't support the 1.4Ghz chip. The point of the adapter is to make something work that officially isn't supposed to. Whether it will work is a risk you have to be willing to take, though like I said, if it didn't work, you could probably resell it at little or no hit in money.

I know where to get all these new pci cards, however i haven't travel there yet to buy any.

Where? I'd consider getting one for folding@home.

But for my new computer, the secondary one when i buy it, i am buying a 8600gt or one of the 9 series cards for it.

I again implore you not to get a PCI card for a computer that has PCIe slots. It's just not worth it. You get MUCH better performance from a better PCIe card that costs less than the 8600GT in PCI. Also, to put an 8600GT on the PCI bus will slow down and be slowed down by everything else that's on the bus, such as the network and audio. The biggest downside of PCI is that every device running in PCI has to SHARE 133 MB/s. EACH PCIe 16x slot has 4GB/s for PCIe 1.0 and 8GB/s for PCIe 2.0. That's a more than 30x and 60x increase in bandwidth, where the PCI device is alone and is running at its theoretical maximum speed.

Fast.

The bios says 2000 lol, my bios version on my p3 is 4/4/2000, i don't think there is a more up to date bios.

You never know. If you've never done it before, I'd bet there is. Just go to this site:

http://support.gateway.com/support/default.aspx

And put in your serial number (probably on a label on the back of your PC) into the box and see what updates come up. It should list BIOS revisions and newer drivers.

 

[LinkedKube]

I'm not so sure, seeing as a big perk of those drivers is that they reduce the load on the CPU.

In the case of a PIII that's something.

The majority of the load in games are on the gpu anyway, that's why cpu speeds only relatively effect fps in most games. I guess my only point is that its pci, not agp or pci e. If you're trying to play todays games yes it will help take load off of the cpu, but your bandwidth is already maxed out with pci cards, and since the memory speed on pci cards is so slow you've just created a little more video lag, taking load off your cpu.

 

[Tha General]

Don't bother. Any company's stance is that any of these computer models that would need an adapter don't support the 1.4Ghz chip. The point of the adapter is to make something work that officially isn't supposed to. .

Ok, so wouldn't it make more sense if i just get the 1ghz one?

You never know. If you've never done it before, I'd bet there is. Just go to this site:

http://support.gateway.com/support/default.aspx

And put in your serial number (probably on a label on the back of your PC) into the box and see what updates come up. It should list BIOS revisions and newer drivers.

No no, i said the link over at their gateway site for my bios is the year 2000. I think my bios is already up to date.

 

[Tha General]

Sorry folks but i am not going to upgrade my computer. So i will just buy the evga8400gs and that will be it for my p3. I am going to go ahead and buy my secondary computer sooner.
The reason why i am not upgrading? I don't see point. But also because , this computer does not have usb 2.0 ports. So certain games which i want to play , well the only ones that is giving me trouble are the Fear games or games that use the fear engines.

They use to work fine using 2.0 speed, but now that i am using 1.1 speed, those games plays horrible.

See, i have a external HD 500GB. I use to have it hook up to my USB 2.O PCI card. But it gave me a huge bottleneck. So i have to leave it in 1.1 usb ports from my tower. Thats why i said a while back, that my computer is bottleneck free now. And i will rather have my computer bottleneck free, then have it bottleneck running on 2.0 speed.

So if you guys can tell me how to enable 2.0 speed without my system being bottleneck, well its really no point in upgrading to a higher speed. I am just gonig to buy my secondary computer soon. So 600mhz on my p3 bottleneck free is just fine the way it its.

peace

 

[FusilliJerry82]

And so it seems you've discovered the reason why a PIII is a dead end (and secondarily why PCIe is the future). Like I said, every PCI slot must share 133MB/s throughput amongst them. If you have a network card, USB card, video card and any other cards, you can see the problem. The good thing about PCIe as compared to AGP is it can be used for any type card that they make in PCIe. There are PCIe sound cards, network cards, hard drive controllers, video cards, etc and they all get their own bandwidth that they don't need to share. And PIII boards that have sound, network and USB built into the motherboard may be deceiving, because those devices still go though the PCI bus, just not through a slot.

It's a shame because if they did ever make a socket 370 (PIII) board with PCIe, that would be one thing. But unfortunately they didn't. The technologies just didn't coincide. That's also why P4 machines in sockets 423 or 478 as opposed to newer P4s in socket 775 are also a dead end. Very few (VERY few, I've only heard of one) boards were ever made that used socket 478 and had a PCIe slot. They're almost impossible to find. None in 423 as far as I know.

So moving to a new computer instead of pouring more money into your PIII is the right move. I still think a processor upgrade would be worth it, but that's coming from someone who could do it themselves; the cost of having it installed for you probably makes it not worth it.

The only thing left is to convince you not to use a PCI video card in a new computer. It's like buying a new Corvette and then swapping in an engine from a Ford Escort.

 

[Tha General]

Well i did fix the problem with performance in fear games. It seems that my external HD which is hook up to the back of my computer in the 1.1. Usb port is slower then my Internal HD. So fear and games that uses the fear engine that runs terrible on my external on 1.1 speed, runs normal and just fine on my internal HD. I only have 10GB tho, so i need to buy a 80GB or 120GB internal HD.

Anyways, i just thought about it tho, i really don't see the point in upgrading, and for a few hours now, because of me only having 1.1 speed, well i just didn't see the point in everything.
So for my Pentium III, 80 or 120 internal HD and the evga 8400gs are the last items which i plan to buy for this computer.

So i am going to buy my secondary computer sooner. I will let everyone know when i get it
USB 2.0 is like a million times faster then 1.1 lol.

The only thing left is to convince you not to use a PCI video card in a new computer. It's like buying a new Corvette and then swapping in an engine from a Ford Escort.

Maybe so, and yes i understand what everyone is saying, clearly PCIE is more powerful, i understand this. I just fav pci cards , i like using them, thats all. I am a pci gamer.

peace

 

[LinkedKube]

w

Maybe so, and yes i understand what everyone is saying, clearly PCIE is more powerful, i understand this. I just fav pci cards , i like using them, thats all. I am a pci gamer.

peace

I wouldnt say "maybe so" to his analogy about an escort engine in a corvette. It was pretty accurate. We just think you're riding a dead horse. The money you put into pci cards you could have had a system that's twice as good, at least. Its more so a waste of money than anything.

 

[PCIGamer]

I wouldnt say "maybe so" to his analogy about an escort engine in a corvette. It was pretty accurate. We just think you're riding a dead horse. The money you put into pci cards you could have had a system that's twice as good, at least. Its more so a waste of money than anything.

Seriously, its pointless. He doesnt seem willing to update any part of his system except for his PCI card. Why? I have no idea.

My P4 8400gs Fallout3/Crysis/COD4 videos/benchmarks were dismissed by him saying that something was bottlenecking my system. This made me chuckle. I've built and tinkered with PC's since the 286 days.

If he likes to game at 5-10fps for anything 2007 or later then so be it.

 

[Tha General]

I don't game at 5-10fps, and everyone needs to stop thinking that. Those COD4 shots i posted were at 1280x1024 normal to high settings, glow on, no AA, texture resolution on extra settings and i get 7-31fps..

Anyways, in other news, the evga 8400gs core is 567 and the memory is at 500, with 512mb , 64bit , 1000mhz, 8.6 bandwidth. Thats the best 8400gs, and i am going to buy it soon.
I also have to buy a bigger HD, going with 80 or 160gb.

peace

 

[LinkedKube]

I don't game at 5-10fps, and everyone needs to stop thinking that. Those COD4 shots i posted were at 1280x1024 normal to high settings, glow on, no AA, texture resolution on extra settings and i get 7-31fps..

Anyways, in other news, the evga 8400gs core is 567 and the memory is at 500, with 512mb , 64bit , 1000mhz, 8.6 bandwidth. Thats the best 8400gs, and i am going to buy it soon.
I also have to buy a bigger HD, going with 80 or 160gb.

peace

so 31 fps would be sitting still or looking at a wall?