AMD: Zen 3 is on track to launch in 2020 and looking great

midian182

Posts: 5,866   +48
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Highly anticipated: AMD boss Dr. Lisa Su has reiterated that Zen 3 is on track to launch later this year, adding that the architecture is “looking great in the labs.” There had been rumors that the new CPUs wouldn’t arrive until 2021, but this is the second time the company has assured fans they’ll be here within the next five months.

Fears that we wouldn’t see Zen 3 in 2020 were already gathering because of the Covid-19 crisis, which has delayed several product launches. It was starting to look like the rumors were true when DigiTimes published a report stating that the Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs wouldn’t get here until next year, allegedly because the current 3000 series was performing so well against Intel’s offerings. Additionally, the launch of the 3000XT series was considered more evidence of a 2021 Zen 3 launch.

AMD quickly refuted the report, calling rumors of the delay “inaccurate.” Yesterday, in a video celebrating the first anniversary of the 3rd-gen Ryzen processors and Radeon 5000 series, as well as the launch of the 3000XT CPUs, Su once again confirmed that Zen 3 was on track for a 2020 release.

We recently heard that Ryzen 4000 desktop processors, codenamed Vermeer, are about to enter mass production. The chips are rumored to boast massive IPC (instructions per clock) gains over their predecessors, meaning some consumers could hold off buying current 3000-series CPUs in favor of Zen 3, despite AMD offering a free copy of Assassin’s Creed Valhalla as an incentive for buyers of certain Zen 2 chips.

Su also mentions the new 3000XT chips in the video. We were far from impressed by the tiny performance improvements offered by the three processors, advising buyers to opt for the cheaper non-XT 3000-series instead, or you could always wait for Zen 3.

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Dimitriid

Posts: 41   +41
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
 
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Thanthan

Posts: 26   +50
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
Zen 2 launch went smooth as butter in My region. Products in stock at msrp, as happened with zen+ so yea.. On the graphics side im inclined to agree, on the CPU side we dont see it where I live at least.
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 51   +48
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
I dont see why she should lie. She would only get the disappointment from amd fans. Intel lies were motivated to try to counter amd cpu's. But Lisa... I dont see a reason to lie. She said the 4x series will be live within the year, and she means that 4x will be live within the year... no tricks.
 
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texasrattler

Posts: 919   +398
Su hasnt lied but she also didnt say there wouldnt be limited stock which could be the case. If the launch happens in 2020, even with limited stock still counts as a launch in 2020.
I doubt many ppl believe youll get 4000 series proc this yr. I think itll be limited with the bulk coming in early 2021. Some will be lucky enough to find one but most likely wont.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,184   +5,514
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
Every launch as of late has been crap. Coronavirus says hello.
 
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Aryassen

Posts: 36   +45
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.
Well, I think there is a difference between "still meaningless" and "not guaranteeing". For all we know, the market can get flooded with Zen3 CPUs in October. The miracle word is, just like you said, "for all we know". Because we don't know. We speculate. And that is all OK, as long as we treat our speculations as such.
I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't know what will happen. I only HOPE that it will not be a paper launch and we can purchase actual products in Q4...time will tell.
 
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JimboJoneson

Posts: 226   +260
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
Wow, quite a lot of confident negativity in something that hasn't happened yet. Maybe just put your crystal ball down for a bit ...
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 1,877   +1,101
Still meaningless: For all we know they can just make this claim by having like a paper launch with 400 units worldwide available on December 27th and it would still count as "Launched on 2020" when for actual people you wouldn't be able to get one until February 2021 and at actual MSPR mid 2021.

The fact that Lisa has to reassure people is because she knows AMD are known for crap launches of late, also AMD fans yes I know intel are just as bad if not worst (Lots of meaningless promises about non existent 10nm or better chips) so don't @ me.
They key here is she said Zen 3 and not Ryzen 4000.

You will see the enterprise launch of Milan of Zen 3 this year. As for Zen 3 the desktop product that may or may not be available at years end in large quantities is my best guess.
 
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poohbear

Posts: 457   +334
As an AMD shareholder, I'm extremely excited.
Today (July 8th 2020) Nvidia surpassed Intel to become the biggest chipmaker company in the world...this despite Intel making way more profits than Nvidia. Which begs the question, is there any future for CPU makers?
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 402   +329
I'm holding off, I'll be upgrading one PC and needing to fully rebuild another and both will get Ryzen 4000. One will get 4700 and the other 4900. GPU is unknown it will depend on price performance ratio of RDNA2 to Ampere.
 
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quadibloc

Posts: 180   +104
I don't know. When Zen 2 launched, the desktop came first, and the enterprise version came later. It may well be that the new chips will come out fairly late this year, and supplies will be somewhat limited, but I don't think there's any reason to expect that the launch will be a complete fiaso that just manages to get technically under the wire for 2020.
If AMD already has it taped out, and TSMC is about to start manufacturing it in significant quantities, which is claimed in the article, that could only happen if TSMC, not AMD, experiences serious problems.
 
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Rjmachine

Posts: 53   +28
Always good with new stuff but no matter how much AMD claims that performance is "looking good" - we won't see the jump we saw from 2000 to 3000 again.

This was purely because of GloFo 12nm to 7nm TSMC and the XT refreshes shows that clockspeed is close to maxed, with 0-1% performance gain and same all-core speeds. I expect a refinement and not much else.

1000 and 3000 = big leaps.
2000 and 4000 = small refinements.

The best thing about 4000 series will probably be cheaper 3000 series.

Now, if just AMD could be competitive in the GPU market too...

With Cyberpunk 2077 featuring DLSS 2.0 I think AMD GPUs will have a hard time tho. This is probably the most anticipated game in years. Can't wait to buy a 3080 or better later this year and immerse myself in this game, on my OLED TV at 1440p or 2160p at 120 Hz native with Gsync !! This game is going to look absoutely insane in full HDR glory !!
 
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Irata

Posts: 650   +851
TechSpot Elite
Always good with new stuff but no matter how much AMD claims that performance is "looking good" - we won't see the jump we saw from 2000 to 3000 again.

This was purely because of GloFo 12nm to 7nm TSMC and the XT refreshes shows that clockspeed is close to maxed, with 0-1% performance gain and same all-core speeds. I expect a refinement and not much else.

1000 and 3000 = big leaps.
2000 and 4000 = small refinements.

The best thing about 4000 series will probably be cheaper 3000 series.
The Ryzen 4000 series is supposed to feature a new microarchitecture, so I doubt we'll only see small refinements.
 
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Rjmachine

Posts: 53   +28
The Ryzen 4000 series is supposed to feature a new microarchitecture, so I doubt we'll only see small refinements.
Yeah I know but Zen 4 is going to bring the big jump, with DDR5, PCIe5.0, 5nm chips etc. Look at all those 5's - 5000 series!

Zen 3 is not really going to do this. 4000 series / Zen 3 will be the last release for AM4 and people might as well have jumped on X570 and 3000 series when it was released instead of waiting a full year, or more, for 4000 series, if they really needed an upgrade, because 5000 series is going to be so much better than 4000 series.

Would be fun to see a "big jump" over 3000 series, with 4000 series, but I highly doubt it. I guess we will know in 3-5 months.

Remember, most of the magic with 3000 series came from 12nm -> 7nm. From a bad 12nm Glo-Fo node to a good 7nm TSMC node - Naturally you'll see a big leap.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 781   +327
I don't know. When Zen 2 launched, the desktop came first, and the enterprise version came later. It may well be that the new chips will come out fairly late this year, and supplies will be somewhat limited, but I don't think there's any reason to expect that the launch will be a complete fiaso that just manages to get technically under the wire for 2020.
If AMD already has it taped out, and TSMC is about to start manufacturing it in significant quantities, which is claimed in the article, that could only happen if TSMC, not AMD, experiences serious problems.
Zen2 server version came out before desktop version. Server version was just restricted to certain partners before it came available to everyone.

Also server version takes about 4-6 months more time to arrive market than desktop version of same chip. That is, if desktop version is pushed as fast it could be. TSMC has surely been producing chips for some time now if launch happens in 2020. It takes at least 4 months from mass production start to get something ready.

Remember, most of the magic with 3000 series came from 12nm -> 7nm. From a bad 12nm Glo-Fo node to a good 7nm TSMC node - Naturally you'll see a big leap.
Most power consumption improvement came from node switch. However architectural IPC benefits are much larger than improvements on clock speed. And with Zen3 we might see architecture aimed for higher clock speeds. Zen2 was low clock server architecture.
 
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Mr Majestyk

Posts: 402   +329
>15% IPC uplift, faster Infinity fabric, 50% boost in FPU, improved cache, higher clocks, Zen 3 will be a big jump in performance, bigger than Zen+ to Zen2 I'd suspect.
 
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Rayneofpayne

Posts: 165   +182
I'll wait for next year, zen 4 or 5 with the new AM5 socket DDR5, PCIe 5, and hopefully thunderbolt.
Then I'll look at upgrading again,
It looks like GPU upgrade will take priority in the fall/winter anyways, I doubt a 3080 or 3080 to will oversaturate the 3.0 bus.
 

DZillaXx

Posts: 62   +78
Always good with new stuff but no matter how much AMD claims that performance is "looking good" - we won't see the jump we saw from 2000 to 3000 again.

This was purely because of GloFo 12nm to 7nm TSMC and the XT refreshes shows that clockspeed is close to maxed, with 0-1% performance gain and same all-core speeds. I expect a refinement and not much else.

1000 and 3000 = big leaps.
2000 and 4000 = small refinements.

The best thing about 4000 series will probably be cheaper 3000 series.

Now, if just AMD could be competitive in the GPU market too...

With Cyberpunk 2077 featuring DLSS 2.0 I think AMD GPUs will have a hard time tho. This is probably the most anticipated game in years. Can't wait to buy a 3080 or better later this year and immerse myself in this game, on my OLED TV at 1440p or 2160p at 120 Hz native with Gsync !! This game is going to look absoutely insane in full HDR glory !!
Zen 3 is a rather major improvement. And while the IPC may only be 10-20% faster, the gains in other areas may be much more than that. There are limitation in the design that hinder performance when you have a lot of talk between CCX's. Each Chiplet (CCD) has two groups of 4 cores that share L3 cache (CCX). Unlike Intel where all cores share the higher level cache, it is broken up on Zen. This means when a CCX needs data from another CCX the latency is much higher than if that data was on its own CCX. This is the primary reason why Zen is sometimes slower than Intel on some games, while beating them at nearly every other benchmark.

Zen3 changes up the CCD/CCX setup. Now all 8 cores in a CCD share the L3 cache. Pretty much making the CCD and CCX one and the same, but full details on this are not 100% clear. But the change to 8 cores sharing L3 cache is going to be a big move. For applications where latency between CCX's caused performance slowdowns, we will see big gains. So games where Zen fell behind, should see Zen3 pull ahead. This is a big deal. This isn't even factored in to the IPC gains, this is just gains from removing slowdowns between cores. This is one of two big changes for the Zen Arch that Zen3 will bring to the table.

The Second big change for the Zen Arch Zen3 is being to the table is a much improved Floating Point Unit design. AMD has said it is upto 50% faster than the old one. Again this is a big boost for the Arch, as the old FPU wasn't exactly lacking either. While it doesn't mean much for normal workloads, a faster FPU is never a bad thing. It will do wonders for the server world. But videogames do also take advantage of the FPU, but it will largely be a case to case basis for what games get the most out of it.

The IPC gains for the integer unit (What most apps run on) are estimated to be in the 10-20% range depending on the application. Not sure if this also factors in the gains for the more effective node it will be on or not. But these are solid gains, much like from Zen1 to Zen2. Along with the IPC gains we should see 100-200mhz higher clocks on avg across the board. Zen2 already has higher IPC than Skylake, but Skylake has the benefit of higher clock speeds. And Skylake having all the cores sharing the same L3 cache, latency slowdowns were never the problem. Which is why it has held the gaming crown. This is about to change.

There are also a number of other changes to the Zen3 Arch that will speed things up and make it more efficient. It is going to be a massive improvement over Zen2. In many ways it will be a bigger leap than Zen1 to Zen2 was. It should be the first time AMD beats Intel pretty much across the board, including gaming. Zen3 won't need 5ghz+ clock speeds to beat Intel. Intel will be stuck on Skylake based CPUs till mid-late 2021 on the desktop. Which then we will get the 10nm Sunny Cove++ based Arch from Intel. At this point in time we will be talking about the upcoming Zen4 and AM5 motherboards. According to Intel's roadmap, they will not be able to match AMD in IPC performance till 2023-2024 or later. Which is around the time they plan to catch back up to TSMC Node wise. But we'll see how this works out for them. And while it may change in the future, for the next couple years Intel is going to lag behind AMD in Core count on their large server grade chips. Intel is already prepared to lose market share to AMD in this regard. And I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the first area Intel plans to improve itself. Either with stacked cores or going with a chiplet design like AMD. All I know is AMD having more cores on a single Socket is going to hurt Intel in the server market. Especially when AMD is giving you better Power/Performance. Being able to pack more into a smaller space, while having the crown in Power/Performance is a big deal. AMD Already does this with Zen2.

AMD will also no doubt only get better in the mobile space. AMD is also aiming to bring Arm Based mobile chips to market. And their RDNA2 GPU Arch is looking to bring AMD's GPU Arch to being on Par or nearly on Par with Nvidia. For a company that had such a rocky last decade, I can't wait to see how they perform over the next 5 years. 2021 is going to be a good year for them.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 781   +327
Zen3 changes up the CCD/CCX setup. Now all 8 cores in a CCD share the L3 cache. Pretty much making the CCD and CCX one and the same, but full details on this are not 100% clear. But the change to 8 cores sharing L3 cache is going to be a big move. For applications where latency between CCX's caused performance slowdowns, we will see big gains. So games where Zen fell behind, should see Zen3 pull ahead. This is a big deal. This isn't even factored in to the IPC gains, this is just gains from removing slowdowns between cores. This is one of two big changes for the Zen Arch that Zen3 will bring to the table.
Latency between CCX is probably still there as probably nothing changes except L3 cache that is shared with both 4-core groups (it might be no longer CCX) whereas on Zen/Zen+/Zen2 it's split.

This is still best we have
and unfortunately that latency between 4-core groups is still there. To clarify: so far AMD hasn't said anything about "8-core CCX". They only said that 8 cores share same L3 cache that is totally different thing than "8-core CCX" that some sites tend to promote.

But picture above is about server version and desktop version might be different. With integrated memory controller like latest APU's perhaps.

The Second big change for the Zen Arch Zen3 is being to the table is a much improved Floating Point Unit design. AMD has said it is upto 50% faster than the old one. Again this is a big boost for the Arch, as the old FPU wasn't exactly lacking either. While it doesn't mean much for normal workloads, a faster FPU is never a bad thing. It will do wonders for the server world. But videogames do also take advantage of the FPU, but it will largely be a case to case basis for what games get the most out of it.
AVX-512 support with 512-bit wide FPU units easily give that "around 50% improvement". In supported software of course.

Along with the IPC gains we should see 100-200mhz higher clocks on avg across the board. Zen2 already has higher IPC than Skylake, but Skylake has the benefit of higher clock speeds. And Skylake having all the cores sharing the same L3 cache, latency slowdowns were never the problem. Which is why it has held the gaming crown. This is about to change.
Skylake is more effective on games primarily because overall memory latency is much lower. Zen2 with chiplets is purely server design after all. While chiplet design with IO die gives some advantages, like same memory latency for all chiplets, that hardly matters when there is only one chiplet.
 
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SixTymes

Posts: 36   +17
Market cap, AMD the new Intel. soon Intel will need billions in cash like AMD got from the Saudis, obviously Intel wont be lucky like AMD was.
 

Jerry in WA

Posts: 84   +78
6 months ago...
My Desktop: Intel/nvidia
My Laptop: Intel/nvidia
Son's PC: Intel/nvidia

Today:
My Desktop: AMD/AMD
My Laptop: AMD (APU)
Son's PC: AMD/nvidia