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Anti-diversity memo author sues Google for allegedly discriminating against conservative...

By midian182 · 35 replies
Jan 9, 2018
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  1. You might remember the name James Damore, the former senior software engineer at Google who was fired last August for writing a 10-page manifesto titled “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber.” At the time of his dismissal, Damore said he was “exploring legal remedies.” Now, he is suing his ex-employer for allegedly discriminating against white, conservative males whose views contrast those of Google execs.

    Damore’s document brought controversy for slamming Google’s efforts to hire more than just white men, and for claiming the low number of women in the tech industry was a matter of biology. He added that employees with conservative leanings have to stay in the closet to avoid discrimination.

    CEO Sundar Pichai said parts of the memo “violate our Code of Conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes in our workplace.” Damore was fired for “perpetuating gender stereotypes.”

    Harvard grad Damore is joined by another former Google engineer, David Gudeman, in the 161-page suit. Gudeman was reportedly fired from the company in 2016 after comments he made allegedly linking a Muslim colleague to terrorism. The lawsuit claims the colleague said the FBI was targeting him, and that Gudeman suggested the agency could have “found something interesting” following his visit to Pakistan.

    Filed by Dhillon Law Group, the suit looks to represent all Google employees who’ve been discriminated against due to their “perceived conservative political views by Google,” “their male gender by Google,” and “due to their Caucasian race by Google.”

    “Google employees who expressed views deviating from the majority view at Google on political subjects raised in the workplace and relevant to Google’s employment policies and its business, such as ‘diversity’ hiring policies, ‘bias sensitivity,’ or ‘social justice,’ were/are singled out, mistreated, and systematically punished and terminated from Google, in violation of their legal rights,” the lawsuit claims. “Damore, Gudeman, and other class members were ostracized, belittled, and punished for their heterodox political views, and for the added sin of their birth circumstances of being Caucasians and/or males.”

    The filing claims Google hired women and minorities in order to fulfil illegal hiring quotas, and that the company was highly critical of any business managers who failed to meet these quotas. It’s also alleged the “presence of Caucasians and males was mocked with ‘boos’ during company-wide weekly meetings.”

    The lawsuit is seeking compensation against Google and an injunction against the company for its alleged discrimination.

    “We look forward to defending against Mr. Damore’s lawsuit in court,” a Google spokesperson said.

    Permalink to story.

  2. EClyde

    EClyde TS Evangelist Posts: 1,593   +572

    It's true that tech discriminates. This guy probably likes pictures of Kallie Plagge
  3. senketsu

    senketsu TS Guru Posts: 828   +554

    The first part is an indefensible generalization, as generalizations usually are. The second is a baseless insult and you have no way of knowing.
    I hope they win. It is one thing to correct injustice, it's another to single out a group and say this injustice is all their fault. This oversimplification has many historical precedents and they end badly. The people 'correcting the injustice' become opressors and persecutors of other people. This indoctrination is so ingrained that this scapegoating is even socially supported.
    p3ngwin, Kotters and wiyosaya like this.
  4. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,648   +1,881

    I went to school for computer science, most of my classes were between 25-35 people. I rarely had more than 5 women in any of my tech classes and my math classes were 60/40 men/women. If women aren't interested in pursuing tech degrees then they can't get hired in the tech world. And, further, there is nothing wrong with that! If women don't want to work in tech no one should force them to.

    To add to that, about 2/3s of my classes were Asian or of Indian or middle eastern decent. So, again, if white men don't have tech degrees and don't want to go into IT no one should force them either.

    So, finally, people shouldn't be surprised when these demographics aren't working in tech if they aren't pursuing degrees or jobs in technology. People are free to do whatever they with their lives and we shouldn't go crying "diversity!" when we see these trends.

    Seriously, who is going to hire someone to be a programmer, game designer or network administrator if they aren't educated to do that job? If you want the job get an education and work experience or no one is going to want to hire you, it's just good business sense. If google would fire me for holding that opinion(set of facts) then so be it.

    Maybe instead of complaining about the lack of women in the tech world we should encourage them from an early age to get interested in technology.
  5. BGrant

    BGrant TS Enthusiast Posts: 30   +27

    I completely agree. The social justice, equality, hysteria needs a good dose of reality.
    richcz3 and p3ngwin like this.
  6. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 3,073   +1,548

    @yRaz and @senketsu - I could not agree with you more. As I see it, the lack of women in tech may be related to the patriarchal society we live in. A friend of mine recounted a story of his then fiancee (who happens to be German). They had gone to her father's home and she drove. When they got in the door, her father chastised my friend by saying if it where him, he would never let her drive. It is attitudes like this that keep society in the dark ages. If I did not know that her father was German, I might have assumed he was from Saudi Arabia.

    Myself, I married a woman who is very knowledgeable in science, mathematics, and programming, and I think it is wonderful to have someone that I can talk to about these things and knows what I am talking about.

    As for this guy suing google, I bet he has a long, long, long way to go to prove this, and I would not be surprised if he is laughed out of court. To me, he sounds like a joke trying to prolong his 15-minutes of fame!
    Charles Olson and Godel like this.
  7. Prosercunus

    Prosercunus TS Maniac Posts: 258   +105

    I think you should look into this a bit deeper. We have seen correspondence come out between Google employees and the blatant discrimination against males or the so called "privileged" class. Don't be surprised if this goes much farther than simply being "laughed out of court"
    p3ngwin likes this.
  8. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,648   +1,881

    I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was saying that the lack of women in technology is due to personal choice not a patriarchal society. The people complaining about the lack of women in these work places are usually women who don't have degrees in IT or men with poor social skills.

    I personally, think it would be great if we have more women in the IT workplace. They think differently than men and that could be beneficial for a number of reasons. However, if women don't go to school for IT(which they don't) we shouldn't be surprised when they aren't in the workplace. The same reason we don't see women in the IT work place is the same reason we don't see white men in the IT work place, they aren't going to school for it.

    Most white men I know go to school for business, finance or engineering. This has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with personal choice of select demographics.
    p3ngwin, senketsu and Burty117 like this.
  9. EClyde

    EClyde TS Evangelist Posts: 1,593   +572

    EVERYONE discriminates AND judges....deal with it
  10. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,648   +1,881

    the problem arises depending on whether you discriminate before or after you meet someone. Discriminating comes before you meet someone, judging comes after.
    mbrowne5061 likes this.
  11. antiproduct

    antiproduct TS Booster Posts: 75   +55

    Wow, some white guys are upset that people of different color/gender are getting treated the same as they've been used to... sounds... umm... like something they should get used to.
    Charles Olson and wiyosaya like this.
  12. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,648   +1,881

    People shouldn't suffer for the crimes of our ancestors. Germany is still paying reparations to Israel even though the vast majority of their country wasn't alive during the holocaust. Japans military is extremely limited for war crimes during WWII even though they're in a similar situation as Germany.

    Want to move past racism and discrimination? Well, it takes both sides and discriminating against white people because our ancestors are guilty does not solve anything. It keeps the fight going which is damaging to both sides and our future as a society. The hard left and hard right keep fighting and opinions like yours are just as counter productive as this guy suing google.
    mbrowne5061, Agnomen and wiyosaya like this.
  13. antiproduct

    antiproduct TS Booster Posts: 75   +55

    Wow, what's really funny is that I was talking about INCLUSION of people of other race/gender and how it makes the people in the current majority feel uncomfortable, and you thought I was talking about exclusion of the majority. I also like how you brought in historical race defenses too, that was totally not necessary or part of the point.
    mbalensiefer and Charles Olson like this.
  14. Nero7

    Nero7 TS Evangelist Posts: 353   +138

    How about hiring the people that you want?
    No worries, there's a good man in the white house who is putting an end to all the BS.

    One gotta love this google story. It perfectly shows the double standards, the hypocrisy and last but not least the failure of that mindset.

    Scary to think that a company with so much might and power and influence is clearly following political agendas.
  15. antiproduct

    antiproduct TS Booster Posts: 75   +55

    So... maybe Google hired who they wanted? Isn't that what you're arguing for? Or are you just upset that who they wanted to hire is different from you? Because, if it's the latter, then take that feeling you feel and think about how that's been applied to everyone else different from you for ages.
    Charles Olson likes this.
  16. wiyosaya

    wiyosaya TS Evangelist Posts: 3,073   +1,548

    I somewhat agree with you; however, if someone does not realize that they have a choice, it would be difficult to make a choice of which one is not aware that they have.

    As I see it, there is no one single reason that STEM is not more diverse. If we were to ask each person why or why not, each person would likely give a different answer. Some might give an answer, but might not know the real reasons why. My mother came from a family with a raging abusive, authoritarian, and patriarchal (also German) father. To her, that style of parenting was "normal". She did not see that her father's actions were abusive, and that is my own personal example of the kind of reasoning behind some people not necessarily knowing the true reasons behind their actions. When you are in a situation which is "accepted," unless you wake up to the reality of it, it is completely normal even though it may be dismal and abusive. Personally, I come from a lower-middle class family. I am in STEM because I was good at it, but no one served it to me on a silver platter - I worked for it.

    As I see it, if anyone, like others have mentioned, points to another and says, "I am not in STEM because you are" it is total crap - scapegoating as one other said.

    At the risk of sounding repetitive, even if a woman is raised in a patriarchal family where "women do not do those types of things," I also think to a limited extent, it comes down to a choice to be in a particular field - but that person must wake up to the reality of actually having a choice because of their conditioning. As is well known, tell a lie enough times, and the lie is believed - especially when it is the parent telling a child. Unfortunately, in that case, the child may not even realize there is a choice that they can make. Not everyone is like this, I know, however, I think it hard to deny that situations like this still exist. As I see it, everyone has not yet awakened.

    And I think you are spot on in terms of moving past racism and discrimination. Neither will end until it has been ended within us all.
  17. senketsu

    senketsu TS Guru Posts: 828   +554

    you are changing how you use the word 'discriminate' in your two phrases
    "It's true that tech discriminates.."
    The context of the article is discrimination in the sense of to make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.
    "EVERYONE discriminates..."
    This is using discriminate in the sense of to recognize a distinction; differentiate. Yes, we do that.
    Charles Olson likes this.
  18. Nero7

    Nero7 TS Evangelist Posts: 353   +138

    A joyful fantasy that I am just jealous eh. Yes, maybe Google did hire who they wanted. The thing is, they are the ones fueling the mindset that you must hire a certain kind of people or else you're doing it wrong. And since they're the ones who fuel it their customers/followers also expect them to do it too. So google is forced to have a certain quota of "mixture" or else the backlash will be huge.

    I ask for land of the free. If you want to hire somebody then hire him. Hire who you want instead of telling people that you must hire someone else because of whats between their legs or a different color or whatever else they use to divide. Also work for who you want.

    As for that sad poster up there talking about the guilt of white men. Sorry but all humans are guilty, but no worries Jesus died on the cross for that for us. No need to be jealous just because white men were successful in the course of history as you can clearly see by the number of empires they came up with and brought mankind forward.

    Just look where the USA has gone to. You're not allowed to hire certain people anymore, you're not allowed to buy certain products from certain people anymore. You're not allowed to voice your opinion anymore. You're not allowed to feel good for who you are anymore. Worst of all I am over there sitting in europe, switzerland and instead of living the happy lives and working formula we import the BS that is going on in the US.

    It always was a social experiment, a social engineering, and a socialist/marxist fantasy to reshape the world in the most undemocratic way ever. You can link every problem that people have with their lives and with themselves to this very experiment. And this here, this hit that google is taking is part of the teardown that this experiment is facing. Now lets hope that there are still proper judges sitting in the court.
    EClyde likes this.
  19. antiproduct

    antiproduct TS Booster Posts: 75   +55

    Wow, just wow. I'm sure the repression of our society must feel really tough for you. So tough that you can't possibly understand what it feels like to be the oppressor that you are.
    Charles Olson likes this.
  20. Cubi Dorf

    Cubi Dorf TS Enthusiast Posts: 85   +32

    I think company should just hire the best person they can get. It should be for technical reason, not silly reason. If you want company to make good monies then hire best worker not basing of race and male or female (I don’t know word for this thing). I like america but it is weird place.
    richcz3 likes this.
  21. Nero7

    Nero7 TS Evangelist Posts: 353   +138

    Typical hybris. What I can and what I feel is beyond your knowledge and comprehension. Think what you want.
    EClyde likes this.
  22. Nobina

    Nobina TS Evangelist Posts: 1,669   +1,138

    So your wife is the man of the house.
    mbalensiefer likes this.
  23. Prosercunus

    Prosercunus TS Maniac Posts: 258   +105

    I think the issue was preferential treatment. definitely not equal treatment. Not even close to the same thing.
    EClyde likes this.
  24. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 3,215   +2,435

    We don't even know the details of this yet. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and say you hope they win simply because this is the typical white baiting discrimination case.

    If this is real discrimination then they should win, if it's not they shouldn't. Let the court suss out the details.

    I would just like to point out that the basis of this lawsuit seems to be more discrimination against political views, which isn't illegal for private businesses.


    They will have to prove that google fired them with just their skin color in mind, which is very hard to prove. James Damore's 10 page anti-diversity letter even states that google has many programs specifically for minorities and non-white males. They are going to have to argue that it is discrimination and not diversity / favoritism. Remember, it is not illegal for companies to favor hiring minorities.
    Charles Olson likes this.
  25. treetops

    treetops TS Evangelist Posts: 2,261   +361

    He made racial stereotypes and was fired. Not really anything special. He accused an employee of being a terrorist simply because he is Muslim. That kind of behavior is not tolerated in the real world.
    Charles Olson likes this.

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